Chuck:
Clearly a terrifying problem if occurring on a huge project where countless automation envelopes/lanes could be in motion and go unnoticed.  A couple of questions:
#1 Is it always Volume that is problematic?
#2 [assuming the answer to #1 is 'No'] Does it matter which lane/automation envelope you create first?
#3 [again assuming the answer to #1 is 'No'] Has this ever happened to MIDI automation?
#4 Have you ever tried to temporarily change the Meter or Tick resolution (I know this sounds crazy, but I seem to recall an issue of this back in the day...)
 
...trying to help
 
-D

This is becoming the one thing that is sticking up my butt about Sonar. Automation is turning out to be quite cumbersome and unreliable in Sonar. I always took it for granted it would work as needed when I actually start digging into it and have hit nothing but problems and brickwalls (including envelopes not working reliably which is of course a major problem in large projects).
 
I think the Baker's, now that they have sorted out so many of the simple but crucial things users have been requesting, should really take a fresh look at how automation works. That is from a reliability/stability aspect and from a workflow aspect.
 
That is not helpful in this regard of course so to not just drop a dump and walk away I think what might help is that once you create an envelope you like on a specific track you should Freeze it (and make sure the freeze worked/wrote the desired automation) then move on to whatever else you need to do. If you need to adjust it later on you can always unfreeze it, do what you gotta, then refreeze.
 
Remember you can freeze a track and freeze a synth or both at the same time. Two different things so if this is a synth thing the maybe freezing the synth is all that is needed to hang on to your automation and you can still deal with the track effects and whatnot on top of that.
 
I guess now you could also record any of this into an instrument/Aux track and use that as you work on the project (and mute the original synth/FX/etc).
 
There are certainly lots of workarounds now but definitely this hinkey automation stuff needs some forensic exploration.
 
Cheers.

Beep,
 
I agree that if there are problems in the code with automation, they should be fixed. I'd like to add that I've never run into any automation issues except for the bug that turns on the PC when I edit a node on an envelope. Really weird glitch that one.
 
In any case, I would think sending the project to support is probably the best way to get the problem looked at as it sounds like it is not easily reproduced.
 
Regards,
Dan
 

dcumpian
Beep,
 
I agree that if there are problems in the code with automation, they should be fixed. I'd like to add that I've never run into any automation issues except for the bug that turns on the PC when I edit a node on an envelope. Really weird glitch that one.
 

I'll have to keep an eye out for that one. I think a lot of it is I am kind of "new school" in the sense I hopped on board after the X series (started on with X1 Prod Suite) so I don't encounter the problems the long terms users have (because I learned the "new" ways from the start) and am used to the more streamlined interface.
 
To me automation (aside from the one improvement of lanes) is very old school. It's not nearly as slick and easy to use as everything else. A lot of the stuff I'd expect to happen like being able to link/group things (as we can with many other elements in the program) doesn't seem to exist so it has to all be done one at a time and laboriously copied around (which has all sorts of quirks itself like selections being lost after one action). Toss in these irregularities like certain controls not obeying automation or only obeying automation when the parmaters are in view (or sometimes simply ignoring automation randomly) and it turns into a really headache for a spoiled newbie brat like meself.
 
Of course it's a far cry better than having to do it ALL on the fly via a hardware console live going to tape like the old days (which I was not a part of) and having no "undo" or editing options but it is certainly jarring to run into an aspect of the program that seems to not be nearly as efficient and cooperative as the rest of it.
 
There are few other old school elements in the program too that I think could be modernized as well to keep up with the X series "feel/flow" but automation, being such an important part of modern production, seems like a good place to really dig in.
 
I'm getting more behind the idea of Automation "Tracks" or "Sandbox" type setups where you can go apeballs on the automation and just route it wherever you want in a project and/or copy it to various/multiple places in one action. That would make things soooo much easier for me personally.
 
But I am indeed a spoiled "X" gen brat.
 
;-)
 
Cheers.

... and another idea:  I seem to recall sometime ago track automation was faulty but clip automation never failed.  That must be back in the S7 days or so. 
 
-D

Anderton
I can't replicate here, tried to do what you appear to be doing with the instrument track. I haven't encountered this before. Can you give steps to reproduce?

I built a new project ( from my master template) with 2 instruments & 1 audio track & immediately saw the same problem exhibited & found one new one
 
So my steps to repro
1) create new project
2) add audio track
3) record automation via EUCON (not sure if this has anything to do with the problem or if it is universal)
 
result
Regardless of automation mode ( say touch) automation is recorded
It wont play back until it the project is saved and reopened
 
check this video for a bit more information http://screencast-o-matic.com/watch/co6tczhiXG
 
Chuck

Well you've piqued my curiosity...this sounds very bizarre. I don't have a EUCON setup, but will try with a different control surface later.
 
Out of curiosity, try this with a different template and see what happens. Also, see what happens if you enter automation data with the console's software fader. 

I've had that happened with manual creation of a volume envelope as well as with my Faderport but could never consistently reproduce it so I just save and reopen.
After reopening it, the automation works correctly as well as any edits that I make to it.

Oh - and to keep going with the bug thread, If I change automation modes while playing, Sonar will crash entirely!!
 
I have 100% success (or failure) on reproducing this
Steps to repro
Open Project
play project
try to change automation modes on Artist Mix (Shift + Rec/Auto button next to Fader)
 
result
Application crashes immediately, no warning or error dialogue
 
Note - you can click on screen to change the automation mode ( from off to write [touch] for example) and things work exactly as expected. This problem is only occuring when you change the state from Artist Mix surface.
 
Chuck

DonM
Chuck:
Clearly a terrifying problem if occurring on a huge project where countless automation envelopes/lanes could be in motion and go unnoticed.  A couple of questions:
#1 Is it always Volume that is problematic?
#2 [assuming the answer to #1 is 'No'] Does it matter which lane/automation envelope you create first?
#3 [again assuming the answer to #1 is 'No'] Has this ever happened to MIDI automation?
#4 Have you ever tried to temporarily change the Meter or Tick resolution (I know this sounds crazy, but I seem to recall an issue of this back in the day...)
 
...trying to help
 
-D

Thanks Don,
 
Here are my answers so far
#1 - Volume is what I have observed so far - It's the most obvious as I see if the faders are moving & there is automation on the track - there may be other problems but I am not noticing as much.
2# haven't noticed any association with particular lanes.
3# haven't seen it with MIDI automation so far but will investigate further
4# haven't tried changing meter/tick resolution but next time I encouter it I will try.
 
basically, as soon as I close/reopen things start to work again. so that is the easiest way to 'reset' things
 
I have noticed on occasions that I open an existing session & the automation isn't playing & this step of close/reopen works again.
 
It's the inconsistency that is freaking me out & reducing my trust in Sonar.
 
Chuck