• SONAR
  • Sustain pedal not working...help? (p.2)
2015/10/21 13:27:28
brundlefly
bvideo
A very old post about similar problems using old Roland keyboards:



With all due respect to Bill, I recommend the OP not look at that post.
 
The problem there was the opposite - sustain only working on playback not while recording. This is due to some older Roland keyboards sending All Notes Off (CC123) when the last key is released (my RD-300s does this). This is only a problem for some soft synths that incorrectly let All Notes Off override Sustain, and only in real-time performance because SONAR (helpfully) doesn't record CC123. This is a synth programming problem, not a SONAR or Roland problem. It can be addressed by using a MIDI FX to block CC123. Newer Roland keyoards (like my RD-700NX) don't send CC123. I'm not sure about the RS-70, but since the OP's symptoms are the opposite, I assumed it doesn't.
 
Hope that didn't cause more confusion.
2015/10/21 13:40:48
brundlefly
sequen
While he would never consider playing his guitar dry, [my brother] doesn't understand the essential need for the nuance of sustain.



Tell him to tie a sock around the neck of his guitar and see how he likes it. 
 
As an aside, I once had an old upright piano on which the rod that lifts the dampers was warped and would constantly fall out of place. It ended up being good for my technique in that I learned how to get more sustain by holding keys as long as possible, and it was good for my composing in that it inspired my to improvise in a more up-tempo, percussive style that didn't need sustain.
2015/10/21 16:20:56
sequen
 It can be addressed by using a MIDI FX to block CC123.

Can you lead me to where I would do this? Wonder if RS 70 manual would tell me whether it sends CC123.
2015/10/21 16:24:13
sequen

Tell him to tie a sock around the neck of his guitar and see how he likes it.

Yeah! Really!
 
Neat story about old upright. Went through a few of those myself. I'm hoping I don't have to start writing purely staccato songs if I can't get around this sustain nightmare.
2015/10/21 16:30:43
brundlefly
As mentioned, I don't think it's relevant to your current issue, but...
 
The basic process is you right-click the FX bin in a MIDI track, and choose a MIDI FX. SONAR ships with one called Event Filter that can do it, but you have to do some setup, and I found it occasionally delayed/lost note events.
 
Fortunately, there is a suite of very good free MFX plugins called TenCrazy. One of them, "SustainFix" addresses many possible issues with CC64, and the first option is Block CC123. This has always worked flawlessly for me.
 
http://www.tencrazy.com/gadgets/mfx/
2015/10/21 16:43:44
sequen
 
As mentioned, I don't think it's relevant to your current issue

 
I see I did misunderstand and that my problem is the opposite of that issue. I'll definitely look into the plugin fix from tencrazy too.
2015/10/21 17:50:10
brundlefly
I hunted up your RS-70 manual online, and the MIDI Implementation chart indicates it recognizes but does not transmit CC123, so nothing to worry about there.
 
 
2015/10/22 07:20:31
sequen
In Edit -> Preferences -> MIDI -> Playback and record --
In the RECORD section there is a list of MIDI event types to record. Is "controller" checked?
In PLAYBACK make sure the "Prepare Using" value is 500 or more.
 
Aside from these settings: there is a midi activity indicator on the task bar. Even without play or record active, it should blink when you press the pedal. That would indicate the keyboard is actually sending pedal and Sonar is detecting it. The settings above control whether Sonar will record it and play it back properly.

It does blink when I press the pedal. I looked in Edit and everywhere else for the options you listed and didn't find them anywhere. Is that because I'm in older version of Sonar? But the light is blinking.
2015/10/22 07:48:50
sequen
I hunted up your RS-70 manual online, and the MIDI Implementation chart indicates it recognizes but does not transmit CC123, so nothing to worry about there.

Thanks man. That's great. At least I don't have to worry about that.
 
Fortunately, there is a suite of very good free MFX plugins called TenCrazy. One of them, "SustainFix" addresses many possible issues with CC64, and the first option is Block CC123. This has always worked flawlessly for me.

Do you still think I should apply this plugin? The computer I have Sonar on is not online. No problem, I can just upload the plugin with a flash from my laptop. But I looked at the directions for getting this into Sonar and, being no geek, it scared me a bit. Not so much that I won't go for it anyway. But just a bit leery.
 
When I was looking all over Sonar for 'Preferences' and the other options as directed above, I found in Midi Devices my Tascam interface's footswitch. It wasn't selected. There is a footswitch jack connection in the back of the Tascam. I shouldn't put my pedal jack in there should I?
 
Also I noticed in Controller/Surfaces there was nothing at all listed. (?)
 
Again I have to tell you all how much appreciate your help on this. I'm losing my mind.
2015/10/22 15:35:43
bvideo
sequen
In Edit -> Preferences -> MIDI -> Playback and record --
In the RECORD section there is a list of MIDI event types to record. Is "controller" checked?
In PLAYBACK make sure the "Prepare Using" value is 500 or more.

Aside from these settings: there is a midi activity indicator on the task bar. Even without play or record active, it should blink when you press the pedal. That would indicate the keyboard is actually sending pedal and Sonar is detecting it. The settings above control whether Sonar will record it and play it back properly.

It does blink when I press the pedal. I looked in Edit and everywhere else for the options you listed and didn't find them anywhere. Is that because I'm in older version of Sonar? But the light is blinking.


There was a reorganization of project and global settings in Sonar X1. I'm sure I don't remember the layout of preferences & settings in version 8, but I'm wondering if there is an "Advanced" button, as there is in the current version, that would expose more settings. The MIDI event types to record is a setting that goes way back in history; maybe it's accessible from some other menu item. Does "help" help find it? By the way, it may be worth exploring whether Sonar 8.3.1 is a worthwhile free upgrade for you, though probably not affecting the current problem.
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