Gee, even as I'm typing one post, the cards and letters keep pouring in. Look, this is turning into a classic fanboi gang-up. To anyone who says they have no problems with Sonar, I believe you and am pleased for you. I'm not even saying I myself have major problems. (I have the Groove3 stuff by the way, though this is irrelevant).
 
Others, however, do have problems. You can read as well as I do. Move in a fact-free zone or not, your choice, and not my problem.
 
But to then switch tack and say "Yeah, but all the other DAWs do too" is not only inconsistent, but an irrelevant, not very subtle diversion. My focus is this DAW, the one I paid for. This forum's focus is this DAW. And this DAW has bugs, including freezes and crashes, unless all the posts about them here are made-up. If Sonar lacks bugs, why is there a steady stream of bug-fixes? (Unfortunately accompanied by new bugs).
 
Software developers who charge for their product should not be so thin-skinned. Is stating the fact really so heretical?  Starting to feel a bit like Scientology in here. Pouncing, especially by a company guy, at the mention of problems helps no one any favors. Shame as there are some quite helpful, even-tempered folks on this forum.
 
Anyway. Have good weekends.
 

lingyai
As for "overthinking" re the updates -- you've said that to me before, and I again I'll respectfully disagree. I've never been a bleeding-edge early adopter, as such folks often end up as unwitting / unwilling beta-testers. This is an IT fact of life -- just look at Windows 10 and El Capitan, to cite the two examples closest to the top of my head. And now especially, I have a shedload of projects I am working through right now, most of which involve relatively (technically speaking) straightforward tasks of audio comping and mixing. I've encountered some quirks, none of which are show-stoppers as I've either developed workarounds or just been able to tolerate them. Nothing I'm using my setup for is broke so I'm not about to tempt fate and "fix" anything; and none of the new features in the update since I subscribed are important to me, so I'll stay put for now, thanks.    

Well we can agree on something. I read the forums first before I update to latest version,very often I skip monthly releases. I still believe Cakewalk should have a regular regression releases inbetween releases whether there are big issues or not, so some of us can just install these updates. Cakewalk only does this when there are clearly big issues right now. I'd also like to see some big fat bug fizlx only updates 2 or 3 times a year.. Just my take.

lingyai
As for "overthinking" re the updates -- you've said that to me before, and I again I'll respectfully disagree. I've never been a bleeding-edge early adopter, as such folks often end up as unwitting / unwilling beta-testers. This is an IT fact of life -- just look at Windows 10 and El Capitan, to cite the two examples closest to the top of my head.

 
But you're missing the point. Unlike El Capitan or iOS 9 here's nothing either permanent or obligatory about a SONAR update. Problem? Roll back - takes a minute or so. No problem? Keep going.
 

Because -- well, you can read as well I can -- there are indeed problems aplenty reported, many by non-newbies, with Ipswich, including things like Sonar not starting, which would piss me off plenty. Please let's not minimise, dismiss or deny them.

 
No one is, but to be fair, do not minimize, dismiss, or deny all the people who are not having problems. Problem reports in the forum are a very small fraction of the user base.
 

Even if the odds are slim that they would affect me (how would you know that, by the way?)

 
As I said - try it and see if you encounter a problem.
 

But I could easily see losing a morning, or a day, or two, getting to the bottom of whatever the jack-in-the-box has in store or me. No thanks -- not me, not now.

 
No need to lose time, rolling back takes a minute or so. 
 

Truth be told, I'm not interested in constantly evolving software. Updates are optional.

 
Exactly! They are optional. You can update every six months if you want. Or never. I just don't think it's a big deal to roll back if you encounter problems. It's simple and you do not need a manual to do it.
 

lingyai
Others, however, do have problems. You can read as well as I do. Move in a fact-free zone or not, your choice, and not my problem.

Nobody said people don't have issues. And almost every time there is a stability issue it's a factor outside Sonar and I've shown you why this is a fact, (you asked btw) which you've convieniantly totally skipped over, instead you just point to some blanket google search which clearly does not filter out system specific issues.

lingyai...
 
In that last post you admitted that you are not interested in new stuff and you only want to use the program as a hobby.
 
So why the heck are you upset about the complexities? Do you expect Sonar to dumb it down and lose their professional/more adventurous customers to suit your hobbiest workflow? Why even update if you are more comfortable with past versions?
 
Most importantly... why, as a hobbiest who is uninterested in new things or creating on an advanced/pro level, do you choose to rag on Sonar seemingly all the time?
 
Really for people who just want to futz around a bit it's not that hard to get the basic workflow down. You can use the Tutorials at the start of the manual to get to that level in about an hour as a complete beginner.
 
All you REALLY need to know is
 
a) How to set up your audio (and MIDI if you have them) devices (covered in the tuts)
 
b) Learn how to use the transport controls and arm tracks (covered in the tuts)
 
c) Insert synths (covered in the tuts)
 
d) Do basic editing in/have a basic understanding of the Track View and editing (covered in the tuts... somewhat but easy enough to study further)
 
e) Have a basic knowedge of a mixing console/the Console View (Fader/Pan/Input/Output... which IIRC are covered in the tuts)
 
e) Export your track (covered in the tuts)
 
From there you can use the Step Sequencer or PRV and/or just record into the program.
 
It's not that hard especially if you are using the mountain of softsynths include (those things basically mix themselves... all you gotta do is choose a preset).
 
Only when you start digging into advanced stuff do things get complex. So if you want to be the next Zappa or whatever the equivelent to Zappa is in electronica terms do things get whacky. For just poking around and having fun it works out of the box... like INSTANTLY.
 
In a lot of ways I WISH I was just out to goof around and have fun because I know I could have churned out a mountain of silly crap at this point. I want more so I learn more and study more.
 
I only kvetch when there is a SERIOUS limitation that needs to be addressed (and boy do I kvetch when I do).
 
You don't seem frustrated with the program. You seem frustrated with yourself and projecting it on the tools.
 
And as far as you taking the whole "ya'll just fanbois" stance... that's bullsh*t and you know it. You started this and you've been ragging for a while now. With your statements here it is obvious you are simply too lazy to do the work needed to get the results you want.
 
That or you're just simply trolling.
 
Either way, get off your azz and do something more productive with your time whether it be music or finding a new "hobby" that's more enjoyable for you.

Beepster
linDo you expect Sonar to dumb it down and lose their professional/more adventurous customers to suit your hobbiest workflow?

Well funnily enough...
https://www.cakewalk.com/Products/Music-Creator

Doktor Avalanche

KPerry
1 - Performance. It shouldn't be the be all and end all but, like cars having great 0-60 figures, it matters. SONAR needs a decent audio/VST performance boost so it can compare favourably with others (which it doesn't in the unfortunately commonly quoted performance tests).

1) Link to quote please ?

This, I think:
http://www.dawbench.com/dawbenchdsp-x-scaling.htm
It is old. They removed Sonar from their new benchmarks (because it does not support Mac).
But Sonar didn't become more efficient. I believe X-series is even worse.
You can confirm this test results, just install Reaper demo and compare.
The difference is not big, but it exists.

I've never used MC so maybe that's an option but I still don't think even the top tier Sonar is that hard to figure out on a basic level. It's layered complexities.
 
You can use it as a simple recorder/mixer very easily if you want. You just gotta be able to not get distracted by the bells and whistles until you are ready for them. That's exactly how I've rolled with it... but I WAS interested in the bells and whistles so spent more time probing into the fancier stuff as I went along.
 
Now I can record, edit and mix almost blindfolded but know how to other fancy arse crud too. I'm not just pissing around with this crap though.

Adq

Doktor Avalanche

KPerry
1 - Performance. It shouldn't be the be all and end all but, like cars having great 0-60 figures, it matters. SONAR needs a decent audio/VST performance boost so it can compare favourably with others (which it doesn't in the unfortunately commonly quoted performance tests).

1) Link to quote please ?

This, I think:
http://www.dawbench.com/dawbenchdsp-x-scaling.htm
It is old. They removed Sonar from their new benchmarks (because it does not support Mac).
But Sonar didn't become more efficient. I believe X-series is even worse.
You can confirm this test results, just install Reaper demo and compare.
The difference is not big, but it exists.

Without up to date results this is merely an assumption. Platinum is a huge improvement imho. I'd like to see benchmarks on next month's as there is an issue right now. People with slow Platinum speeds should try going into preferences and disabling arm recording during playback monitoring, a regression issue with the new synth recording functionality one assumes...

Anderton
Problem? Roll back - takes a minute or so. No problem? Keep going.

 
This is simplistic in the extreme.  It might take a good chunk of the day just to convince one's self that the problem is a new bug in the latest update, and not something else inadvertently done.  Factor in asking for help here and waiting for answers and several days might go by.  Not much work getting done in the meantime.