Adq

Doktor Avalanche

KPerry
1 - Performance. It shouldn't be the be all and end all but, like cars having great 0-60 figures, it matters. SONAR needs a decent audio/VST performance boost so it can compare favourably with others (which it doesn't in the unfortunately commonly quoted performance tests).

1) Link to quote please ?

This, I think:
http://www.dawbench.com/dawbenchdsp-x-scaling.htm
It is old. They removed Sonar from their new benchmarks (because it does not support Mac).
But Sonar didn't become more efficient. I believe X-series is even worse.
You can confirm this test results, just install Reaper demo and compare.
The difference is not big, but it exists.

I did not click the link but unless they did a comparison from X3 onward the results are invalid. X1 and X2 were a mess (I was screaming bloody murder by the end of the X2 cycle... it got ugly). All major problems went away with X3.
 
However Reaper is definitely a much more system friendly DAW. I'll even go as far as to say that Sonar, even now that it's much more stable, probably isn't the most stable amongst the top three or so (but I have no reference point in the past 5 years).
 
HOWEVER... the Sonar package is far more robust (more bang for the buck) and it's workflow/toolset is more of an "artists" package. As in it's something a musician would use to create... not necessarily what a tracking/mixing studio would use (primarily).
 
Reaper is indeed solid and works on almost anything but I could never work with it on a creative basis. I used to use Nuendo which I'd like to own again (or at least Cubase) but again... that is a very dry and sterile environment. The type of thing I'd really only use if I had a tracking room or maybe for specific features/compatibility with other studios.
 
I've said this a million times on here. I looked at ALL the major DAWs when I was looking to upgrade my recording stuff. I was making the shift from a live artist with tons of bands/musician's around me and a bandroom I could track in to being a sh*tknob sitting alone in a dark room doing it all myself. I needed all the instruments (especially drums) and ways to make it all happen In the Box. Sonar was the best package to acheive this. Anything else and I would have had to shell out another grand for the synths, drum samplers, effects, etc on TOP of the DAW.
 
There were some rough times and there are some things abotu Sonar that still tick me off but overall, as a creative artist, it was the right choice and over time I've been vindicated.
 
Choose the best tools for your own workflow/needs.

Doktor Avalanche
Without up to date results this is merely an assumption. Platinum is a huge improvement imho.

Did you do benchmarks or is it just your impression?

Doktor Avalanche
I'd like to see benchmarks on next month's as there is an issue right now.

Next month track-to-track routing probably will be introduced. Do you believe that it would magically improve performance, or more likely it would introduce new troubles?

One of the differences I have seen between tutorials for other products and Sonar is in most of these magazines the tutorials for how to accomplish particular tasks that are in demand by aspiring artists usually done in another DAW. The tutorials are typically done in a way (and they usually state that) that can be applied across the board. These tutorials still hold value for users of other DAWS, but psychologicaly still plants a seed of preference. Most Sonar tutorials feel aimed squarely at Sonar users and thus other DAW users don't bother to look.

I find most people that see me working with Sonar are surprised at how well it works, but that's just it...the fact they are surprised means that one way or another, Cakewalk's marketing message is not really getting to them. Most of the time I am not showing them anything that is not in one of Cakewalk's teaser vids, yet it is new to them. Among younger crowd it is a actually surprising when they have actually heard of Sonar.

I'm not saying Cakewalk has to necessarily take the pay to play approach of other companies, but clearly there are advantages. Principles are great, but Cakewalk can make a product true to its principles AND compete in the marketing arena. When I turn on a trendy show like Empire, having millions see Sonar on the screen of a character would probably not hurt sales. Having artists relevent to today's youth using and endorsing the product would not hurt either. Every artist I see on blog etc brings forth a "who is that?" no matter how much the marketing people try to play it up. The quality of a product should not be judged on who endorses, but the sad truth is music production is a copycat industry. Nike was just one sneaker brand until Jordan endorsements made it the sneaker brand. Stephon Marbury just claimed his $15 shoes are made in the same locations as $200 Jordan's but that fact won't boost his sales because he is Stephon and Mike is Mike.

Finally, I have watched many products go from niche product to must have off of the strength of one hit. Say what you want about Autotune, but they should send Cher and subsequently T-pain thank you cards daily. The moment that ubiquitous, annoying hit is produced in Sonar, this will be a non-issue and the pretentious buttlickers at gearslutz will throw up Sonar forum overnight.

It has come to my attention that some posters to this thread are being a little coarse. Lets try to be civil to one another. We can disagree and still be civil.  

I just -know- I'm going to regret this, but thought it might be interesting to finish up a small project started during the blizzards of 2015 in NE. This is offered SOLELY in the spirit of constructive contributions as championed by CA and a slightly more objective perspective on "real" DAW usage as opposed to forum posts.
 
Recording Magazine (http://www.recordingmag.com/) offers a monthly review/critique of 2-3 reader submissions which often include the gear used to make the recording. A panel with some level of industry expertise critiques and rates the arrangements/tracking/mixing for each song with 5 stars for the highest rating. To be clear, musical critique with hardware issues noted if they think it impacted the recording.
 
A script was used to extract the year/genre/rating and DAW mentioned for each submission to yield a total of 253 records running from 2008 - 2014. A DAW was noted in 216 of the 253 records. A few select results.
.......
 
ALL DAWs MENTIONED / % OF TOTAL:
Protools - 27%
Logic - 19%
Sonar (+) - 18%
Cubase - 17%
other - 5%
Digital Performer - 3%
Adobe Audition - 3%
Garageband - 3%
Presonus (+) - 2%
Reason - 2%
Nuendo - 2%
 
NOTES:
1. (+) indicates various versions from a single mfr.
2. Rock/pop style entries dominate with 67% of the total, followed by country @ 8%, jazz and blues @ 6% each.
3. Very heavily weighted on "traditional" instrument performance with only 2 entries -total- in the "electronic" category. (Where are all the loops?)
.......
 
5 STAR RATINGS / DAW (top 5)
26% of all entries received a 5 Star rating with 93% of those reporting a DAW (as if this might indicate which DAW was better... )
 
ProTools - 30%
Sonar - 20%
Logic - 15%
Cubase - 15%
Digital Performer - 9%
 
NOTES:
4. 100% of the Digitial Performer submissions received a 5 star rating.
.......
 
A few points/conclusions that -could- be drawn. Feel free to make your own.
 
5. For a really good rating, we should all be using DP. :-)
6. Higher ratings are not strongly correlated with a DAW. Makes sense to me, as music is a creative process and creative people can make music with whatever tools work for them.
7. Sonar has a greater positive representation in this data set than one might guess if they only spent time on forums.

just saying.

Doktor Avalanche
Without up to date results this is merely an assumption. Platinum is a huge improvement imho.

Adq
Did you do benchmarks or is it just your impression?

 
FYI imho stands for "in my honest opinion".
 

Doktor Avalanche
I'd like to see benchmarks on next month's as there is an issue right now. 

 

Adq
Next month track-to-track routing probably will be introduced. Do you believe that it would magically improve performance, or more likely it would introduce new troubles?

 
I don't know.

John
It has come to my attention that some posters to this thread are being a little coarse. Lets try to be civil to one another. We can disagree and still be civil.  

Host, unless you can point to what the exact problem is (i.e. a quote) this is a meaningless comment. It appears like you are teacher  telling the whole class to behave, even weirder you are doing it when another host is partaking in the discussion (is this aimed at him as well?). For what it's worth I don't see any big issues going on with this thread, but then again I have no idea what you are talking about.

Doktor Avalanche

John
It has come to my attention that some posters to this thread are being a little coarse. Lets try to be civil to one another. We can disagree and still be civil.  

Host, unless you can point to what the exact problem is (i.e. a quote) this is a meaningless comment. It appears like you are teacher  telling the whole class to behave, even weirder you are doing it when another host is partaking in the discussion (is this aimed at him as well?). For what it's worth I don't see any big issues going on with this thread, but then again I have no idea what you are talking about.

It is likely someone complained about MY posts. Calm thineself. I'm the douche in this one.
 
It happens all the time when I unzip my silver tongue because folks don't like being called on their sh*z.
 
Can't blame the hosts for that.

Doktor Avalanche

John
It has come to my attention that some posters to this thread are being a little coarse. Lets try to be civil to one another. We can disagree and still be civil.  

Host, unless you can point to what the exact problem is (i.e. a quote) this is a meaningless comment. It appears like you are teacher  telling the whole class to behave, even weirder you are doing it when another host is partaking in the discussion (is this aimed at him as well?). For what it's worth I don't see any big issues going on with this thread, but then again I have no idea what you are talking about.

I thank you for your input but I will handle things the way I think best. I have no wish to single out anyone for now because we are all adults and able to figure out what is meant. 
 
Thank you for your concern. 

Beep I never saw any offence in your comments, strong views is not the same as name calling, just imho.
 
I understand the motive John, but it doesn't work the way you think it does. Being a host if there's a complaint you should be extremely specific IMHO if you address all of us, otherwise you risk offending everybody, looking authoritarian,  and changing the whole course of discussion. It's was probably best to send a PM in this instance if there really was some terrible issue. Nevermind no harm done hopefully.
 
We shall move on.