• SONAR
  • Salmon under Glass- sophisticated dining for the discerning epicure (p.7)
2015/10/09 20:25:01
John T
I think he genuinely loves pro tools, which I personally find as weird as people claiming to actually like broccoli, but different strokes for different folks and all that.
 
2015/10/09 20:26:42
yevster
CW marketing was mediocre even before the Roland split. Magazine ads with taglines like "the tools you want." Videos that walked through the program feature by feature, rather than how real musicians and producers actually create music. CW never had marketing right. Couple that with years of a product that could not market itself, and you are guaranteed mediocrity.
 
2015/10/09 20:28:32
yevster
Anderton
yevster
This is how Avid markets its DAW

 
It's branded Pensado's Place. Unless Pensado is part of Avid's marketing team, this is not how Avid markets its DAW. (Granted Avid is a sponsor along with several others, so it could be a "pay to play" situation.) 
 
This is how Steinberg markets its DAW

 
It's branded Future Music. I don't think Future Music is the marketing division for Steinberg...
 
Anyway, I actually found the Bluestone interview quite interesting, it's helpful to hear the viewpoints of other SONAR users who are into EDM...especially ones as successful as he is.
 
And Cakewalk has done tutorials in the past. This gives you not only a tutorial on mixing in SONAR, but the files needed to go through the tutorial and learn how to do by yourself instead of just watching someone else say how they do things.
 


Actually, that's exactly how viral marketing works. Avid does sponsor Pensado's place, and Steinberg does sponsor those Future Music segments. They embed their product into places where people go for information, rather than for marketing. And such outreach finds a much more receptive audience. 
2015/10/09 20:31:14
yevster
Anderton
 
And Cakewalk has done tutorials in the past. This gives you not only a tutorial on mixing in SONAR, but the files needed to go through the tutorial and learn how to do by yourself instead of just watching someone else say how they do things.
 



Let's look at that link, shall we?

Mixing with ProChannel in SONAR X3 Producer

Thank you for downloading the "Mixing with ProChannel in SONAR X3 Producer" guide from Disc Makers. This guide was written by industry expert, Craig Anderton, and is designed to help you learn more about the revolutionary new ProChannel feature in SONAR X3 Producer. In order to follow along with Craig Anderton, you will need to download the SONAR X3 Producer Trial and the CA-2A Leveling Amplifier Trial, which are both free to use for 30-days.
Fill out the form below to begin your ProChannel experience.

So, I'm seeing a tutorial for how to use a single tool in a single application. The description actually states that to follow along, the specific application will be necessary. So question: just by looking at the description, what value would I see in this tutorial if I was a Cubase user or a Pro Tools user?
 
2015/10/09 20:32:13
Anderton
And concerning marketing in general, I hate to say it because I've defended the integrity of many magazines for years, but everything these days is becoming pay to play...if SONAR wants to get mentioned, the easiest way would be to buy lots of ads in magazines and on web sites, then call 'em up and browbeat them for more coverage. With a few notable exceptions (and I most definitely include Sound on Sound, in case anyone wondered) magazines no longer exist mainly to serve their readers, but to do what they think serves their advertisers.
 
Some people are too short-sighted to recognize that serving the readers IS serving the advertisers, in the most important way possible: by attracting readers to see their ads. As long as circulation and page counts keep going down, neither readers nor advertisers are being served. It's sad things have come to this. 
 
What brought this home to me was talking to a company and saying I'd love to review one of their products for Harmony Central. The owner said that would be nice, but he doesn't advertise with us. When I told him it didn't matter, we're not "pay to play" and we write reviews for the HC community, his jaw just about dropped. He then told me of adventures with recent magazines and web sites that were basically what I could only call shakedowns. 
 
If SONAR's popularity continues to increase, it will be due to the merits of the program and the support of its users, not bribes. /rant
2015/10/09 20:33:18
Anderton
John T
To be absolutely fair to Pensado, yes, they do brandish their sponsors all over the place, but if you watch his thing regularly, especially the Into The Lair segment, he will happily enthuse at length about anything he really thinks is great. Including even freebie plug-ins that couldn't possibly afford a kick-back that'd be worth his while. He's a businessman, of course, but I think he's also a fairly straight shooter.



Well, then that supports my point he's not part of Avid's marketing team. Thanks.
2015/10/09 20:36:02
sharke
Adq
Anderton
Meanwhile, you mean like this? 
 

Actually no.
I mean something like Pensado's lessons, and some major online music learning sites. This sites have Sonar videos, but only for learning Sonar. If they are teaching producing or mixing in general they always use ProTools, Logic or Ableton Live.




I'm starting to get a bit weary of Pensado's lessons. The guy's amiable enough, but too many of his "lessons" start with an attractive promise like "how to mix vocals" or "how to get bass to sit in the mix" but just consist of him saying "guys I want to show you something really cool this week" before demonstrating some gargantuan FX chain which seems to be little more than a plugin endorsement, without actually explaining the philosophy or theory behind what he's doing. And then he turns the effects on one by one, says "pretty cool, huh?" and that's it for another week. Meh - there are way better tutorials out there. 
2015/10/09 20:36:24
Paul P
Anderton
if SONAR wants to get mentioned, the easiest way would be to buy lots of ads in magazines and on web sites, then call 'em up and browbeat them for more coverage.



Gibson coud take care of the browbeating.
 
 
2015/10/09 20:36:47
lingyai
Anderton
 
And Cakewalk has done tutorials in the past. This gives you not only a tutorial on mixing in SONAR, but the files needed to go through the tutorial and learn how to do by yourself instead of just watching someone else say how they do things.
 



I hadn't come across that one. Yes, tutorials with files beat the hell out of those without, imho. You'll find things like this -- along with video transcripts, super useful, not only because they let you skim ahead, but also to let you focus without having to take notes -- on Lynda.com (where, I've noticed, the latest Sonar tutorial is for X2).  Great for learning, and also, I'd imagine, great for marketing -- gives folks a reason to download and quickly get their hands dirty. I can imagine you guys are stretched, but why not a) put out more of these, and b) when you do, post about it, with links etc, on KVR, GS, SOS et al.? E.g. "Cool **** You Can Do In Sonar Part 17: Speed Comping" or whatever. Only thing is, they'd need to be very well-executed -- unclear / rambling / otherwise bad tutorials are worse than none at all. (Not saying CW's are ... just saying in general).
2015/10/09 20:41:28
yevster
Magazine reviews may always be BS, but people still read those magazines, which means they learn something from them.
 
You don't need to browbeat magazines for coverage just by advertising. Hire one of the respected Sonar artists (perhaps even yourself) to just demonstrate his/her production process. Do not talk about the DAW or specifically its features. Do not shy away from 3rd party plugins. Just discuss the creative choices made and how they come together. Once two or three of such videos are out there, preferably not under Cakewalk's name at all, take out a one-page ad in Computer Music or Future Music or something of the sort, which has a well-developed electronic version. Then link or embed those videos in that ad.
 
Done and done.
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