kine321
 
This is the most basic of functions that every hardware drum machine or sequencer has always done. I think most of us a certain age started on hardware, well before computers became the new standard.

 
I definitely know that space, I wrote the manuals for the Drumulator, SP12, and SP1200.
 
I'm not saying anyone should not want the option to have clips merge automatically. You can do whatever you want. But, I would not want it to be automatic because suppose I do five passes of a kick drum. Say I particularly liked the third one. If everything merged automatically, there would be notes on top of each other and it would be a PITA to separate them out and edit. I'd rather review and nuke the unneeded stuff prior to bouncing. This is why it's vastly more important to me to be able to edit notes from previous passes. Then it wouldn't matter if they were merged automatically or not.

Anderton

kine321
 
This is the most basic of functions that every hardware drum machine or sequencer has always done. I think most of us a certain age started on hardware, well before computers became the new standard.

 
I definitely know that space, I wrote the manuals for the Drumulator, SP12, and SP1200.
 
I'm not saying anyone should not want the option to have clips merge automatically. You can do whatever you want. But, I would not want it to be automatic because suppose I do five passes of a kick drum. Say I particularly liked the third one. If everything merged automatically, there would be notes on top of each other and it would be a PITA to separate them out and edit. I'd rather review and nuke the unneeded stuff prior to bouncing. This is why it's vastly more important to me to be able to edit notes from previous passes. Then it wouldn't matter if they were merged automatically or not.

Yeah... I know your history, but you have to keep in mind that other people read these threads that only have history with computers, you know.... the ones that never owned or used a turntable or knows what a cassette tape is. BTW: I have one of your old books: Electronic Projects for Musicians. Even played the sound sheet that came with it..cough!
 
I won't make this a back and forth debate, because I'm being repetitious about the subject. However, I must point out that I'm not speaking about auto-merging of clips. That's something I mentioned in a previous thread as a compromise to overdubbing. All said and done, it's about offering options to users that have different preferences for how they record midi. No losers, just choose your preferred option and get to work. At this stage, your preference is all that's offered! Others that want the configurable option of midi-overdubbing, are forced to use stacked clips. You win we lose. Should I name other DAW's that do both?

Here are my thoughts about this problem (feature request):
http://forum.cakewalk.com...dub-mode-m3276115.aspx

kine321
At this stage, your preference is all that's offered!

 
You're missing my point; my preference is NOT at all what's being offered. My preference is a true drum machine mode, where I can see and edit notes entered on previous passes. Auto-merging at that point would make a great deal of sense, because you would have already "cleaned up" the tracks as you went along.
 
Your original post said "[SONAR is] the only DAW to not have overdub midi recording." That was not true so I addressed what you said, as did others. It wasn't until post #7 that someone offered a theory as to what you were trying to say, but now you say you weren't talking about auto-merging of clips. So TBH I guess I have no idea what you actually want, because if you don't want different lanes I don't know how everything would end up in one track if it wasn't auto-merged...so I don't know if I'm addressing something relevant to the point you were trying to make.
 
In case I wasn't clear, the reason why I wouldn't want everything recorded into a single, mixed track is that given the current state of SONAR's MIDI overdubbing, unless I got every drum right on one pass per drum and didn't need to change what I entered, I'd end up with a situation where notes could end up on top of each other and create a major mess. If you want auto-merging under those conditions that's fine with me, but it would drive me nuts trying to deal with all the duplicated notes. That's why if present, I would disable the option immediately. 
 
Nothing I've said has been opposed to the idea of having options. I started post #21 with "I'm not saying anyone should not want the option to have clips merge automatically." But now I guess that's not what you were asking for?
 
Again, what I want is a true "drum machine" mode where I can play parts while loop recording and have the ability to edit any notes that were recorded on any pass. Now, since in the first post you said you want overdubbing and that already exists, and in post #22 you said you don't actually want auto-merging (which I don't want either unless there is a true drum machine mode), can you tell me exactly what it is you do want that's different from the drum machine mode I'm describing? At this point I must confess to being totally confused...sorry...
 
I've already put in a feature request for drum machine mode so if there are ways to enhance it that's great, but I can't push for it if I can't understand the form that enhancement would take.

Anderton

kine321
At this stage, your preference is all that's offered!

 
Your original post said "[SONAR is] the only DAW to not have overdub midi recording." That was not true so I addressed what you said, as did others. It wasn't until post #7 that someone offered a theory as to what you were trying to say, but now you say you weren't talking about auto-merging of clips. So TBH I guess I have no idea what you actually want, because if you don't want different lanes I don't know how everything would end up in one track if it wasn't auto-merged...so I don't know if I'm addressing something relevant to the point you were trying to make.

Overdub is one of those terms that's double headed. It's used interchangeably based on your point of intent. I've been steady about this feature request and may have used this term, but I have also used merged midi recording in a prior thread that you responded in dealing with this very subject. It's not possible to be any clearer. I've been a broken record about it. Someone also provided references to those threads or similar ones by others in this very post. It's quite easy to surmise that clip stacking or midi takes are what's already in place. Was I not clear with my hardware drum machine analogy? That was to convey merged recording! Also... a number of members in this thread did understand what I was saying. Just re-read some earlier comments in case you missed it.
 
Your idea about the drum machine is cool. Hopefully they see fit to include that in a future update. You make some amazing tutorials and great how to's. I rather learn from you than debate about midi recording, so I'm off to make some music now, Have a nice one!

I must admit that after I was used to using Pro Tools MIDI merge mode until it was second nature, I got frustrated that Sonar behaved differently in that it created multiple clips on top of each other. The whole idea of clips on top of clips just doesn't sit well with me, I guess everyone's different according to how they've approached things in the past. There have been a couple of times when I've appreciated having separate clips and didn't mind bouncing them, but on the whole I would prefer to work with a MIDI merge mode and have always been puzzled why Cakewalk didn't just add what seems like a pretty straightforward option. 

Adq
Here are my thoughts about this problem (feature request):
http://forum.cakewalk.com...dub-mode-m3276115.aspx

The request to record a looping step sequencer is very similar. Basically a new hit firing in an existing SS slot would get overwritten.

From a PRV aspect, not sure what criteria would trigger an overwrite... Snap settings?

sharke
I must admit that after I was used to using Pro Tools MIDI merge mode until it was second nature, I got frustrated that Sonar behaved differently in that it created multiple clips on top of each other. The whole idea of clips on top of clips just doesn't sit well with me, I guess everyone's different according to how they've approached things in the past. There have been a couple of times when I've appreciated having separate clips and didn't mind bouncing them, but on the whole I would prefer to work with a MIDI merge mode and have always been puzzled why Cakewalk didn't just add what seems like a pretty straightforward option. 

If this was implemented as a new Sonar feature, how would it appear ?
 
1) an "always record into existing midi clips" option in preferences.
2) another recording mode setting . . . record "sound on sound with midi merge"
3) "automatically bounce to clips" after midi recording in track options
 
 . . . just curious, since many think this is an important feature, and I think there should be a way to turn it on or off depending on the type of midi recording workflow you are doing.

mettelus

Adq
Here are my thoughts about this problem (feature request):
http://forum.cakewalk.com...dub-mode-m3276115.aspx

The request to record a looping step sequencer is very similar. Basically a new hit firing in an existing SS slot would get overwritten.

From a PRV aspect, not sure what criteria would trigger an overwrite... Snap settings?

Yeah, maybe. Everything is possible if there is idea what to do.
And I don't like step sequencers so much as earlier, I think with right options and features everything could be done in PRV easier. There is just lack of this features at this time. In fact step sequencer could be embedded in PRV.

noynekker

sharke
I must admit that after I was used to using Pro Tools MIDI merge mode until it was second nature, I got frustrated that Sonar behaved differently in that it created multiple clips on top of each other. The whole idea of clips on top of clips just doesn't sit well with me, I guess everyone's different according to how they've approached things in the past. There have been a couple of times when I've appreciated having separate clips and didn't mind bouncing them, but on the whole I would prefer to work with a MIDI merge mode and have always been puzzled why Cakewalk didn't just add what seems like a pretty straightforward option. 

If this was implemented as a new Sonar feature, how would it appear ?
 
1) an "always record into existing midi clips" option in preferences.
2) another recording mode setting . . . record "sound on sound with midi merge"
3) "automatically bounce to clips" after midi recording in track options
 
 . . . just curious, since many think this is an important feature, and I think there should be a way to turn it on or off depending on the type of midi recording workflow you are doing.

That's why it's called an option, It's no different than if you were to choose comping mode (which was added) or any of the other options listed in preferences. We're not talking about anything radical or left field. This is a standard feature practically every DAW has the ability to do. Ever tried: Samplitude, Reaper, or Tracktion just to name a few? These programs offer midi takes and midi merging. Tracktion can stack clips and do midi takes that IMO are far better implemented than Sonar, but I'm not a big fan of the piano roll. 
 
The midi merge option can be chosen on the transport or have a dedicated midi merge record button that's maybe orange, alongside the standard record button. Yep... it can be just that simple. No need for a lifestyle change!