• SONAR
  • Huge SONAR "Ipswich" update now available (p.10)
2015/09/20 18:47:21
Susan G
lingyai
PaulP -- I'm not saying I would neccessarily install an update withput reading these forums; on the contrary. I'm just saying it would be nice to get the emails other subscribers get.
 
 


Hi Ken-


If you go to your account at http://www.cakewalk.com/My-Account is "Newsletter" checked? If so, I guess you'll have to contact CW directly. I had similar problems with CW emails for years, but none lately.
 
Good luck-
 
-Susan
2015/09/20 18:50:00
Doktor Avalanche
Adq
I think this update system is very good. And definitely more rare updates would be much worse. The only thing I see that could be added is more intensive beta-testing, but it could be a problem from business and marketing point of view.


Cakewalk asked for more beta testers not very long ago.

From my experince people who become beta testers do not necessarily do so much beta testing because it can take up a lot of time. Bit like volenteer moderators. Only a few end up fulfilling the deal the rest disappear into the sunset or just do the bare minimum.
2015/09/20 18:50:13
lingyai
The ability to rollback to previous versions is often mentioned here almost as a panacea should bugs in updates prove crippling or what-not. 
 
The disk space used of keeping multiple versions of a DAW around aside ...
 
What happens if I create a project in 2015 Release 1.01 (so to speak), then download and continue working on it in 2015 Release 1.02, without using any of the new "features" of v1.02 (for example, VocalSync, Mix Recall, etc).
 
Suppose further that after investing many hours on the project in v1.02, I encounter some bug / deficiency / whatever you wish to call it which makes me want to retreat to the relative safety of v1.01. (After all, such problems don't always reveal themselves immediately).
 
Is it guaranteed that I'll be able to open it in v1.01, keeping my work done 1.02 intact, and finish it in v1.01? Is this even answerable? Or does it all depend?
 
2015/09/20 19:01:27
lingyai
Susan G
lingyai
PaulP -- I'm not saying I would neccessarily install an update withput reading these forums; on the contrary. I'm just saying it would be nice to get the emails other subscribers get.
 

Hi Ken-


If you go to your account at http://www.cakewalk.com/My-Account is "Newsletter" checked? If so, I guess you'll have to contact CW directly. I had similar problems with CW emails for years, but none lately.
 
Good luck-
 
-Susan



Thanks very much Susan, Good steer -- indeed, it is not checked. It never occurred to me that I'd need to  opt-in to be notified for an update for which I'm paying, or that this is what "newsletters" cover, to me that term always implied more pedestrian news.  Oh well, now i know. Though for some reason,in both Firefox and Chrome, the "Newsletter" box won't accept a check mark. I'll contact the bakers directly and ask them how to check the box.
2015/09/20 19:33:52
Anderton
lingyai
The ability to rollback to previous versions is often mentioned here almost as a panacea should bugs in updates prove crippling or what-not. 
 
The disk space used of keeping multiple versions of a DAW around aside ...

 
I believe you can access them from your account. The only disadvantage compared to local storage is you have to access the internet and download again.
 
What happens if I create a project in 2015 Release 1.01 (so to speak), then download and continue working on it in 2015 Release 1.02, without using any of the new "features" of v1.02 (for example, VocalSync, Mix Recall, etc).
 
Suppose further that after investing many hours on the project in v1.02, I encounter some bug / deficiency / whatever you wish to call it which makes me want to retreat to the relative safety of v1.01. (After all, such problems don't always reveal themselves immediately).
 
Is it guaranteed that I'll be able to open it in v1.01, keeping my work done 1.02 intact, and finish it in v1.01? Is this even answerable? Or does it all depend?
 
First, if you encounter a bug many months after something was introduced, it probably didn't relate much to your workflow, so you probably won't miss it much if you just stay with the new version.
 
Second, Cakewalk is quite good about compatibility, both forward and backward. Of course if you used some feature in a project based on a new version, and that feature wasn't in an old version, you won't be able to use that feature in an old version.
 
Third, I believe you're overthinking this. You might find this tip helpful as a way to create "future-proof" files but which are also "past proof." Ultimately the most important part of any DAW is the audio and MIDI data, which can transfer not just between different versions, but different DAWs and even different platforms.  
 
2015/09/20 19:39:05
Anderton
lingyai
 
 
Thanks very much Susan, Good steer -- indeed, it is not checked. It never occurred to me that I'd need to  opt-in to be notified for an update for which I'm paying...



In the United States it's considered impolite to "opt-in" people to newsletters and such without asking first because some people get really angry about it. Ideally the notifications section of the Start Screen should help solve these kinds of issues, but the Start Screen itself currently has some limitations that cause people to disable it, so it's no guarantee people will see the notifications. 
 
Susan G is not the only one who has had difficulty getting the email newsletters. Most of the time the answer is obvious, like newsletters being diverted to spam filters or someone not opting in, but there have been some people who seem like they just can't get these newsletters. If you continue to have problems, contacting Cakewalk is usually the solution.
2015/09/20 20:34:05
Vastman
Finally got a chance to sit down with my DAWling... Oh WOW!!!!  This is sooooo awesome... love it ooooooooodles.... it just.... works!  
 
OK, I'll be patient about better arranging because I KNOW u gotta be workin' on it and it'll be AWESOME when it comes out.  U humans ROCK!
2015/09/21 11:09:27
lingyai
Sorry, I'm getting screwed up somehow with the quoting function,pardon this roll-your-own formatting...
 
Craig, thanks for replying. BTW I've been reading your stuff since I was in my DAW diaper days (CW7 and Cool Edit). The fact that I might not always agree with you (see below ;-)  ) in no way means any disrespect; on the contrary. 
 
-- As for "First, if you encounter a bug many months after something was introduced, it probably didn't relate much to your workflow, so you probably won't miss it much if you just stay with the new version."
 
No sir, that does not follow at all. Features used in a project are links in a chain, and what they say about chain strength and weakest links is a cliche for good reason. Importance does not necessarily correlate at all with the order in which something is used. My typical workflow is audio recording>>audio editing>> basic audio levels and panning >> basic audio FX and routing >> detailed audio automation envelope work >>> [same steps for midi] >>> basic master bus FX >> master bus fx automation. 
 
The fact that, for example, I spend maybe the first 95% of my time on all but the last step in no way means that the last step doesn't relate much to my workflow; on the contrary, it is integral to it, it just comes last. That might sound like an extreme example, but it's actually exactly what happened to me in Sonar 2.2 when I found, and tech support confirmed, that master bus automation wouldn't work in that version. A major enough omission that I abandoned Sonar (having been with in the family since CW7), only returning last year. 
 
--As for "Second, Cakewalk is quite good about compatibility, both forward and backward. Of course if you used some feature in a project based on a new version, and that feature wasn't in an old version, you won't be able to use that feature in an old version."
 
Agreed.
 
--As for "Third, I believe you're overthinking this. You might find this tip helpful as a way to create "future-proof" files but which are also "past proof." Ultimately the most important part of any DAW is the audio and MIDI data, which can transfer not just between different versions, but different DAWs and even different platforms. "
 
Thank you, that tip is indeed a useful way of quickly and conveniently archiving through rendering-- old working habits of mine, but I didn't know about that method in Sonar. Good stuff.
 
However, archiving won't always suffice to save time lost if a suddenly encountered bug bricks a labor-intensive project. This is because the most important part of any DAW, or rather, a project done in a DAW, goes quite beyond the underlying audio and midi data. It also includes the data embodied in comping, volume and panning levels, FX chains parameters / automation / routing, soft synth choices parameters (including, say, custom-layered Kontakt instruments) and their automation / routing, master bus FX chains etc.
 
Archival bouncing (including bouncing midi as audio) will capture a snapshot of the final sound of a project, which is great if that's the final version, but if it's not, you've got a problem because you won't be able to tweak the links in the chain got you there. These links are what I spend the vast bulk of my DAW time crafting. Sometimes the links can be painstakingly reconstructed, sometimes not. If say on a vocal track you've got EQ>>verb>>compressor>>limiter, and you want to go back and fix the verb on a printed audio track,you're stuffed.
 
So, with respect, I am not overthinking this at all. I'm speaking from painful experience, not only with CW products. Complacency can make you really sorry layer. As I bother with all of this out of fun / love of the craft and art of music-making, I try real hard to avoid the colossal time-wastes I've gone through over the years.
 
In case someone infers otherwise -- I'm largely happy to return to the CW fold. I got X3e last year, and for the first time in quite  a while, I could spend hours focusing basically on the music, as opposed to the DAW. Real joy. In fact I saw no compelling reason to move on until I heard about the sale price for Platinum with its killer feature, Mix Recall, so I went for it. I'm proceeding with it cautiously -- so far, so good-ish, though a freeze at the start screen was not the best introduction.
 
My main point is that rollback-ability can in some ways be a lifeboat; but at the end of the day, I'd prefer to enjoy the ride on the stable cruise ship I'm paying for. So I am super-careful about rolling upgrades.
 
Unfortunately it's not so simple a matter as forgoing some of them under  the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" rule, because the monthly updates are an inseparable mix a) new features which, while maybe super nice, aren't vital; b) bug-fixes, which could well prove to be vital; and c) new bugs, as you can read about all over this forum, release after release.
 
I know this stuff is hard to do, and that the bakers are talented and dedicated. Still, there are real reasons to get nervous. These should not be dismissed.
 
2015/09/21 11:26:53
Anderton
lingyaiArchival bouncing (including bouncing midi as audio) will capture a snapshot of the final sound of a project, which is great if that's the final version, but if it's not, you've got a problem because you won't be able to tweak the links in the chain got you there. These links are what I spend the vast bulk of my DAW time crafting. Sometimes the links can be painstakingly reconstructed, sometimes not. If say on a vocal track you've got EQ>>verb>>compressor>>limiter, and you want to go back and fix the verb on a printed audio track,you're stuffed.

 
Having worked with computers since the mid-70s, I always assume data can evaporate at any time for any one of several reasons. In your example above of a vocal chain, you can save that chain with its settings as a track template. You can also save the individual presets for the effects. MixScenes can recall automation curves. My project folders don't contain only audio, MIDI, MixScenes, and a .CWP, but presets, synth programs, and when using external gear, sys ex data.
 
This isn't just for backup, but also for those "I really liked the vocal sound I got in XYZ, it would work well in this song" situations - the answer is a couple clicks away. 
 
So, with respect, I am not overthinking this at all. I'm speaking from painful experience, not only with CW products. Complacency can make you really sorry layer.

 
Yes, but backing up vital elements of a project is the solution. Never trust anything related to computers - software, hardware, operating system. Elements will fail and it's important to prepare for that eventuality.
2015/09/21 14:26:17
kevinwal
Saving the export settings in the project file was worth the entire release, thanks for a version that targets me!
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