So I have been looking around at the different controllers out there, most are well very unimpressive to say the least. It seems like there is a small number of quality units on the market. 1st I noticed the Roland vs700 but they have stopped making them so that means it short order they will stop supporting them as a company. Then I took notice of the SSL controller they have and well 5,400 dollars I think it is just for a controller seems kinda high. Of course its SSL after all and im sure its top notch quality but I really dont have that much to spend at least any time soon.
 
So I found this new Berhinger Mixer the X32 and normally I stay away from them like the plague but as I was reading and watching videos I noticed they acquired Midas technology's including manufacturing plant from them. And Midas has made some nice stuff in the past and have loved everything I have touched from them. After looking at this board Berhinger is putting out it looks quite nice. and its more than just a controller its a full blown digital mixer with plugins included for the board it self, wireless control from ipads ect. 40 inputs and 20 out. Looks damn nice.. Has anyone had a chance to get one or test one out? Any thoughts? or knowledge out there. What do you guys think?  

Hi.
 
I guess you found the right one to talk to ... I own 2 X32s (rack and compact) as well as a VS-700.
 
First of all, they are totally different animals, you can't compare.
 
The X32 is a full blown digital mixer with an incredible price/value ratio, great scalability if you use S16/S32 snakes etc. and I'm very happy with both of mine (despite a funky and very special problem I had lately that you can read about in this forum).  I use the X32s for mixing live shows (where it also acts as audio interface to supply a number of backing tracks from Sonar) and for live recordings ...I would not use it in the studio, neither DAW control nor quality of the onboard FX processors is anywhere close to what I expect from pro equipment ... and it's limited to 44.1/48 kHz ...
 
PROS & CONS (IMHO and thus totally subjective) ...
 
X32 PROs :
 - MIDAS preamps
 - scene storage/recall
 - 32 IN / 32 OUT
 - remote control from Android/iPad
 
X32 CONS:
 - DAW control via MCU protocol extremely limited (only track control like mute, solo, arm, no control over busses etc.)
 - onboard FX can't compare to VST quality
 - only 44.1 kHz / 48 kHZ (which is OK for live, but in the studio we're at 96 kHZ for a reason)
 
 
As regards the VS-700 you need to distinguish between the 2 components: VS-700R and VS-700C, both of which are officially discontinued but still work quite well with Sonar.
 
Nevertheless I would no longer recommend buying the VS-700R, which is the rack unit with the preamps and the FANTOM synth. I still use it (because it works and the preamps are of good quality), but there is better stuff out there ... the VS-700R is quite noisy, you may not see another driver update ever, and the FANTOM synth is superseded by all the VSTis out there ...
 
The VS-700C, which is just the MIDI controller, is still probably the best, offering the most complete functionality of all Sonar controllers. There are some feature from the Sonar 8.5 days which are no longer supported, but most are ... and the workflow experience is great ... if you are just looking for a way to control Sonar like you would from a mix desk than this gets probably as close as you can get at the moment (with no real positive outlook that anything better will come anytime soon) ... following the forum I read that the SSL stuff (despite being more expensive) does not seem to be at a comparable level when it comes to controlling Sonar (but other will be able to tell you more) on that ... if you are willing to take risk in terms of future drive updates, the VS-700 on ebay may be a relevant option ...
 

FreeFlyBertl
X32 CONS:
 - DAW control via MCU protocol extremely limited (only track control like mute, solo, arm, no control over busses etc.)

Could azslow3's plugin come to the rescue here ?
 
You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want!

Paul P

FreeFlyBertl
X32 CONS:
 - DAW control via MCU protocol extremely limited (only track control like mute, solo, arm, no control over busses etc.)

Could azslow3's plugin come to the rescue here ?
 
You can integrate your Control Surface with SONAR as deep as you want!

I can't tell for sure but I suppose not ... because MIDI implementation is really poor in the X32 and azslow3's plug will require the messages to be sent from the X32 (but if the fireware doesn't send it, the plug won't be able to fix it)

wow that is all disappointing ...  I really would like a soild controller. One of my friends said they were able to get the old tascam 1884 to work on x2 or x3 ... wonder if it would work on the new sonar.. IDK.. any other controllers out there anyone has used they have been really happy with. I dont supose Presonus has a digital mixer/control surface? 

duceirae
wow that is all disappointing ...  I really would like a soild controller. One of my friends said they were able to get the old tascam 1884 to work on x2 or x3 ... wonder if it would work on the new sonar.. IDK.. any other controllers out there anyone has used they have been really happy with. I dont supose Presonus has a digital mixer/control surface? 

well, controllers are indeed a sad story and there's a constant discussion here on the forum why there's no effort being made to come up with a rock solid one ... and the discussion always comes to the conclusion that there is no market for the high end stuff ... which must be true because the highly developed ones are all legacy and the only recent annoucements for new controllers I have seen was for the new Behringer series, which is just a fancy replacement for their BCFs and BCRs ...
 
personally, I don't get it because I need a controller and I got one that's working OK. I wouldn't want to do it all by mouse ... I reckon mass market thinks differently, for them the DAW is what it stands for i.e. a digital workstation driven by mouse or touch ... for me it's a box in another room that switch on once and don't seen for the rest of the session ... I want knobs, faders, meters, tubes, preamps, and musical performances ... and not chasing the mouse around ... but that's just my 50ct

yeah I guess I dont really need a controler for everything really I just want or need rather one that is soild in the areas of faders, aux faders, pans, mutes, solos. and it would be nice to have things like but not nessiarry but would be a great bounus, meters, sends, ect. and anything else would be a bounus..  and it needs to look "pretty" too, who wants something like looks cheap and junky haha..

ok so I guess my question would be does the x32 work in regards to basic controls like faders, pans ect with sonar as a controler. I wouldnt be using it in the studio as my main interface. I still plan on using my focusrite for that. but id also like a digital mixer for gigs like anything from weddings, podcasts, sports broadcasting, music or whatever. and it looks like it does pretty good for live stuff. but what I guess what im trying to get as as a controller can you do most of the same things you can with something like a tascam 1084 did a few years back.. There is still things Id do with a mouse but id really like to get my hands on real faders and pan knobs things like that... ?

Controllers are hardware and fairly specific and very costly to design and build.  The VS 700 is about as good as you are going to get, at least for SONAR.
 
I've been saying for years manufactures either need to make simple controller (more like the V100 than 700) for universal use or a DAW specific controller, which the 700 was.  But what happens when the software changes - the hardware will get out modeled.  SONAR is all about the PC right now, which control has to be programmed in.
 
The best bet is a touch surface.  I know a lot of old-timers (and you young whippersnappers) don't see like touch substitution.  Whomever puts a nice, big touchscreen and a single channel hardware strip w/ moving fader and knobs into a cheapish package will have a nice run until behringer copies it. 
 
@

AT
Controllers are hardware and fairly specific and very costly to design and build.

I think that controller producers want we believe in that. But I do not see from where it comes. Most expensive motorized faders, retail price per peace, $20. Endless encoder (think about mouse wheel) is $5. Buttons let say $1. LCD panel for display yet another $50. Controller which glue all that (and read e-mails in addition) is another $50. So, 8 channel surface should be $400 at most. There is no audio, so no noise, coloration, etc. which makes audio equipment a challenge to design.
 
Let take old style ball mouse. It had 3 optical encoders (2 axis plus wheel), 3 buttons and a controller to send all that. By "reassembling" it mechanically ( make "slider" turn one axis and position wheel encoder vertically instead of horizontally) we get "Volume"/"Pan"/"Mute"/"Solo"/"Arm" one strip controller... for under $5
 

I've been saying for years manufactures either need to make simple controller (more like the V100 than 700) for universal use or a DAW specific controller, which the 700 was.

Something like "DAW specific controller" as a hardware is theoretically not possible. They all send/receive absolutely the same signals, the difference is in resolution and feedback support only. The rest is done in software on computer side.