Vastman

joel77
Geez Dana, what's with the name calling? People are frustrated. That doesn't make them idiots.

I called no one names... and I empathize with Dub's frustrating situation over the holidays... I do get tired of blaming "iLok" which for the most part works exceedingly well...and I saw the typical piling on... it's like people always complaining about the EWQL Play engine, based on old information... furthermore, complaining about copy protection, "harming the legitimate user" when the very software we love won't survive due to pirates.  
 
Do I wish we had a different world? Yea..

This is a straw man argument.  Cakewalk, Image-Line, should have died by now. Some great food for thought I always like to post and it is from a developer from Spectrasonics.  This quote was taken from the NSS forum years ago.
 
It's not as ideal as you might imagine.

The closest thing to that is iLok. But the problem with a system like that is that it gives the most important control of your product to another company...and you have to go along with their way of doing things, even if that's NOT the way you want to do business. Not only that, but if something happens to that company or that system, then it affects everybody...hundreds of products and hundreds of thousands of users! The concept of paying for a system like that, when we can do a better job of it in-house is extremely distasteful to me.

It's weird....we lose some sales to Pro Tools users because we don't use iLok and they prefer to have a dongle. But if we did, there are many thousands more of our users that would hate going to a dongle system. (and offering both dongle and dongless methods just complicates things, providing less reliability, more tech support and less security as well).

I just would never trust another company (especially PACE) with such a valuable and key part of my business and how I interact with my customers.

spectrum
 
 I've had more issues with iLok than elicenser where I've had to reinstall.  Interesting that Pro Tools seems to suffer from financial problems and popularity more than most DAWs.  The internet is never ending on the negatives of iLok. When UVI changed their authorization which still uses Pace they marketed "free from the iLok".  Go figure.
 Dongles are a benefit for multiple machines. I don't like when developers have their own proprietary dongle or make you use a flash drive for authorization. Peavy is the most annoying and Waves is next.  Authorization is one of the top things I consider before paying for software.
 
 

I really don't want this to breakdown into insults. Part of why I have been inactive here is due to aggression over opinions. I was actually hoping someone knew something i didn't to get software to work.

I don't believe that piracy is killing software industry. I believe oversaturation and the nature of software lead to an inevitable reduction in sales. The fact no company has experienced a major correlating spike in sales due to dip in piracy is a strong indicator that pirates don't just start buying software if locked out. They will either work harder to crack or use another product. In any case, none of this is helping. At the end of the day, it's still not working so I may have to deal with Pace's awful customer service :(

....

dubdisciple
I really don't want this to breakdown into insults. Part of why I have been inactive here is due to aggression over opinions. I was actually hoping someone knew something i didn't to get software to work.

I don't believe that piracy is killing software industry. I believe oversaturation and the nature of software lead to an inevitable reduction in sales. The fact no company has experienced a major correlating spike in sales due to dip in piracy is a strong indicator that pirates don't just start buying software if locked out. They will either work harder to crack or use another product. In any case, none of this is helping. At the end of the day, it's still not working so I may have to deal with Pace's awful customer service :(

absolutely agree, but here's what I see- the sales manager reports to the ceo or cfo on sales for the past quarter;
"we just released a new product, why arent these numbers better ?"- quick and easy answer: "piracy"
 
I'm willing to bet that scene does not happen in the head office for Reaper 

kitekrazy1
Some great food for thought I always like to post and it is from a developer from Spectrasonics. This quote was taken from the NSS forum years ago.
 
It's not as ideal as you might imagine.

The closest thing to that is iLok. But the problem with a system like that is that it gives the most important control of your product to another company...and you have to go along with their way of doing things, even if that's NOT the way you want to do business. Not only that, but if something happens to that company or that system, then it affects everybody...hundreds of products and hundreds of thousands of users! The concept of paying for a system like that, when we can do a better job of it in-house is extremely distasteful to me.

It's weird....we lose some sales to Pro Tools users because we don't use iLok and they prefer to have a dongle. But if we did, there are many thousands more of our users that would hate going to a dongle system. (and offering both dongle and dongless methods just complicates things, providing less reliability, more tech support and less security as well).

I just would never trust another company (especially PACE) with such a valuable and key part of my business and how I interact with my customers.

spectrum

Very good point, as well as dubdisciple's argument: pirates will be pirates.
I for one don't like using pirated software, makes me feel a bit dirty.
Now I'll admit, a bit dirty may be alright once in a while. 
So I did get pirated stuff, once or twice, long time ago.
Guess what happened. Guess what I did.
I purchased :)

FleerVery good point, as well as dubdisciple's argument: pirates will be pirates.
I for one don't like using pirated software, makes me feel a bit dirty.
Now I'll admit, a bit dirty may be alright once in a while. 
So I did get pirated stuff, once or twice, long time ago.
Guess what happened. Guess what I did.
I purchased :)

More people started out like this than they would like to admit. Many people don't have thousands of dollars to test the waters when they first get started and they didn't have things like subscriptions back in the day so they began as pirates. Then, over time, they start to see the value of purchasing the product and do so if they see this as being an investment for them. I'm proud to say I've helped convert more than one person from going the way of the high seas after a while.
 
Sure, there are some who will likely never buy because it's not a career thing for them and they do it for goofing around in and you'll never be able to convert the "collectors" who pride themselves on having everything, but those are far and few between. People who generally take their music seriously see why it's worth the money, even if not right away, and purchase.

mudgel
Ilok 2 here. No Problems.

Same. For years now.

I recall an excecutive with Sonic Foundry  (pre-Sony)  admitting that many of their best clients started off with pirated versions and that copy protection schemes never boosted sales.  I'm not advocating piracy. I know developers need to feed their families.  I just think piracy is a scapegoat for failed products. New industries tend to have tons of people putting out similar products. The truth is that most of us could make exactly what we wanted with a D.A.W. from 10 years ago. In bad economic times,  we are less likely to buy a product that shares a large portion of functionality with what we already own. The debate is a dead horse. I just wish there were better ways to resolve when my situation occurs. I have an eventide plugin I like using that is useless right now.

Such simple things can screw up authentication systems. Sigh.
 
I had a problem once with an admin who maintained my systems quotations. Before Borland came out with a decent spreadsheet, I was forced to use Lotus 1-2-3 for DOS. It required a key diskette in the 5 1/4" diskette Drive A: to operate. Pain in the butt, but managable. Until my admin's install started denying her key diskette.
 
After much time and mental anguish, I was able to determine the reason for the failure. She got tired of storing and retrieving the key diskette, so she cleverly attached it to the file cabinet right next to her PC.
 
With a refrigerator magnet.
 
Face palm! 

Without dongels I'd be without some of the best software on the market. Irreplaceable imo.