• SONAR
  • Project locked into silence (more than one project affected)
2015/09/24 16:20:05
GMcT
I mentioned a problem in an earlier post where Sonar will not switch on the fly from my notebook's speakers to external speakers or headphones or back again without, often, multiple restarts.
Now, my second attempt at a song is locked into silence.
Sonar reports that the master bus is assigned to silent hardware.
I have tried all logical combinations of restarting Sonar with the external speakers plugged in/unplugged and have clicked "Yes" to the message "would you like to reroute..." with no effect.
Changing Custom-Preferences-Audio-Driver settings-Playback timing master does nothing.
I had to delete my first attempt at a song and start again from scratch after the same thing happened last week.
At any point in time, my project can go silent, voiding all my work.
I am waiting for a reply from the notebook's manufacturer regarding audio drivers, but I can state that no other programme on my notebook has this problem.
All my games, VLC Player, WinMed Player, Fl Studio 8, Youtube/Firefox, all switch without a problem.
At present, I feel that I'm wasting my time trying to be creative with Sonar.
Does anyone else have this problem or better yet, have an answer?
Thank you in advance.
2015/09/24 16:31:14
John
It sounds as if you are using the on board sound chip of your computer. You need a proper sound card/device. One meant for pro audio. 
2015/09/24 17:00:05
GMcT
Well, if that's the case John, then I have just wasted £1000 on Sonar plus a new notebook to run it.
That requirement wasn't specified on the box.
 
Minimum System Requirements:
OS: Windows 7, 8/8.1 or 10 (32- or 64-bit)
Processor: 2.6GHz Intel or AMD multi-core processor (at least Intel i5 or AMD A10 APU recommended)
Memory: 4GB
Hard Drive: 5GB for minimal install (20GB recommended)
Monitor Resolution: 1280x800 (1920 x 1080 recommended)
Audio Interface: ASIO compatible hardware is recommended
Internet: Connection required
2015/09/24 17:13:08
John
Right, a good audio interface is recommended. You haven't wasted $1000 you simply haven't gone all the way yet. Now you need to look for a good audio interface.  There are plenty to choose from and not so very expensive. 
2015/09/24 17:41:20
GMcT
I don't see how using an external USB device will help.
This is a problem with Sonar functionality, or the lack thereof.
And I have spent $1500 on this, so far.
I am not impressed.
2015/09/24 17:42:56
Beepster
Graeme McTaggart
I had to delete my first attempt at a song and start again from scratch
 
 
At any point in time, my project can go silent, voiding all my work.
 



These two statements are REALLY nuts. Are you saying you deleted the projects over this?
 
STOP doing that!
 
There is something else going on but if the projects worked before once you solve the issue (which sounds very much hardware or user error related) they should work again.
 
Yes you should get a proper audio interface but you should provide more details about the project (what's in it, how you're recording things, how many tracks, what you were doing when the projects stop outputting audio... anything you can think of) and how you have configured Sonar (in Preferences) and how you've configured your soundcard/Windows sound crud.
 
Just STOP deleting your projects. This is likely a very solveable issue.
 
Also start "versioning" your projects using the Save As command. So you record a track to your liking or do something significant like get a sound you like do a Save As with a slightly different title (like Title 1, Title 2, Title Guits 1, Title Guits 2, etc)
 
That way when something DOES go really wrong with a project (real project corruption) you haven't lost everything and can revert to a previous version.
 
To me it sounds like you are bouncing between programs and booting Sonar off the soundcard when doing so... which is then causing a no audio output issue OR you are doing something weird that's muting the output/deleting clips/whatever.
 
Just stop deleting projects, go through the Tutorial section of the manual, ask questions here on the forum and if all else fails call Cake support.
 
Sorry but deleting work really makes no sense at all.
2015/09/24 17:50:22
Bristol_Jonesey
Graeme McTaggart
I don't see how using an external USB device will help.
This is a problem with Sonar functionality, or the lack thereof.
And I have spent $1500 on this, so far.
I am not impressed.


You must trust the forum on this - a decent USB interface will make ALL the difference.
 
As you've said, you've spent 1500 or so on this so far, so don't skimp on the most vital piece of kit your system needs to run smoothly by trying to run it on a 2 cent audio chip!
 
You can pick up a very decent interface for a couple of hundred max and many of us will help you decide which unit to go for, and to help configure it if you run into problems
2015/09/24 18:06:08
scook
It is possible to use the internal sound chip with SONAR. I believe those suggesting a dedicated interface do so because it will provide better performance and often easier to setup.
 
The instructions to setup a realtek chip are here https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Knowledge-Base/Audio-Hardware-Setup-Guide?audioMake=Integrated&audioModel=Integrated+audio&product=SONAR+Platinum
 
If SONAR is losing the setup, some other device is taking over the driver. Another issue with using the internal chip is running multiple sample rate. Make sure the OS and SONAR are set to run the same sample rate. IIRC, Windows runs at 48k by default. Also make sure to disable Windows sounds.
 
I believe there are some experienced users which use the internal chip in laptops. Hopefully they will weigh in with their advice.
2015/09/24 18:18:09
tlw
Graeme McTaggart
I don't see how using an external USB device will help.


There's a reason the Sonar requirements, which you've quoted, say "Audio Interface: ASIO compatible hardware is recommended."

On-board sound chips almost never have a manufacturer supplied ASIO driver. ASIO allows for much lower latency times. Latency, put simply, is the gap between playing a note on a software synth plugin using a MIDI controller and the sound chip emitting sound. It also affects how long it takes for the DAW to receive audio input and route it back out again if you're using Sonar's audio track echo to monitor your input (a typical use of this is if using guitar amp emulation).

There are all sorts of causes for the sound dropping out or crackling if the latency is set too low, and all sorts of fixes to that particular problem, but let's try go one step at a time.

So, the on-board sound should work with Sonar, at least it should produce sound, but an interface with an ASIO driver makes things much simpler.

Graeme McTaggart
This is a problem with Sonar functionality, or the lack thereof.


I absolutely assure you that Sonar does not make a habit of suddenly randomly deciding the audio interface is silent. Assuming there's nothing else going on that's nothing to do with Sonar, such as the interface actually being set in some way to be muted. If it did then there'd be lots of people complaining about it, including those who've been around here a very long time.

So. In Sonar's preferences, what do you have selected as the audio interface and the audio driver?

The timing master should normally be left at the default, it generally works fine unless you have a very specific reason to change it, such as synchronising Sonar to an external clock of some kind.

In Sonar preferences, is the "share audio driver with other applications" ticked or not? Switching between applications that use sound can result in one of them grabbing and locking the Windows audio driver then not releasing it until that application is closed or not releasing it in a way Sonar can recover it from, especially if Sonar's also using the Windows default audio driver.

For that reason it's usually not a good idea to have two or more audio-driver accessing applications open at the same time, even if one is in the background. At least, not until everything works OK with just Sonar open.

Graeme McTaggart
And I have spent $1500 on this, so far.
I am not impressed.


All Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) software has a steep initial learning curve, whether it's Sonar, Logic Pro, Live, Pro Tools, S1, Cubase or any other. Different DAWs have different ways to catch out the new user, even if that new user is very familiar with another DAW. They are very complex applications that need a computer and operating system that can handle their peculiar needs, primarily as close to real-time multi-track audio processing as possible. Which is a much more complex and resource intensive task than a media player or game's use of audio.

Tuning a Windows system to meet those needs can seem a bit involved, but I assure you it is possible. And this forum is one of the best peer-to-peer user software support forums there is with a huge amount of combined experience and it's not often the collective mind doesn't come up with a solution.
2015/09/25 03:54:55
GMcT
I deleted the project because, once Sonar starts displaying the "master assigned to silent hardware" message, there is no way that I can work out, of restoring that project to the state of being audible.
Every time this happens, if I start a new project during the same session, it will be fine, but the file with the problem stays locked.
The same message will be displayed if I open the project; so, even though Sonar is configured correctly at that moment, it will not reroute that project to the selected, functioning audio device.
It makes no difference whether I'm using speakers or headphones, once I get that message, it's the kiss of death for that project.
 
I am working my way through the 2188 page pdf, learning as I got.
Sonar is basically similar to FL, it is the more crowded interface which is taking time to get used to.
Yesterday's track had a single instance of Strum Session with 12 bars in the piano roll. Nothing else.
I was just starting to programme the track and I'm still getting used to the piano roll in Sonar. (I find it tricky to work with at present).
 
I work abroad, so I never considered buying an audio interface, mainly because I never record anything, and also because it would be additional weight in my luggage and FL works fine on my notebook without one.
I don't know how heavy these things are or their dimensions, but I would either have to abandon it next summer or else pay to have it couriered to my home address.
If the only solution to this problem is to buy one, then in all honesty, I would have to seriously consider paying another £200/$300 to update FL Studio and see how many instruments from Sonar will work with FL.
 
I have gone through the audio hardware setup mentioned above and everything listed on the page matches my actual settings.
Share Audio Devices is not ticked.
The default device is the onboard speakers at present.
Once the headphones are plugged in, they are listed as an additional option.
I agree, I will have to Save AS every session, so that I can go back to the other version if/when I hit this problem.
I hadn't done that because I haven't got anything significant done in Sonar so far.
I'll start a third attempt at creating a basic project this afternoon, but I'll check back here first.
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