• SONAR
  • How to get Guitar track all one level (p.3)
2015/04/19 14:28:18
Bristol_Jonesey
Vokalzz
 
 
Plus what are your thoughts related to chain plug ins. Eq first? this is how im doing it
 
LP64 EQ for high pass and low passing
sonitus EQ for frequency sweaping if needed
sonitus EQ for shaping the tone as needed
Noise gate
Route to bus:
delay
reverb
compression
 
what are your thoughts. I figure I ask cause i am getting a lot of great responses. Thanks so much guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I personally do any EQ filtering (LPF & HPF) before compression, and I wouldn't use the LP64 for this operation. The Sonitus is fine for this. If the curves aren't steep enough you can stack 2/3/4 together, just switch them all to HPF/LPF and use the same Frequency & Slope as per the first band.
Follow that with compression, then EQ for tonal shaping. Use the Quad Curve EQ.
 
Set the OUTPUT of your track to a Guitar buss
Set up busses for Delay & Reverb, then insert a SEND on your guitar track to each of these busses.
2015/04/20 12:05:35
stevec
Another option outside of compression and track automation, would be to point all you tracks to one bus and automate the volume on that.   It would leave the per-track dynamics in place while allowing you tailor the volume between the softer and louder parts using one envelope. 
 
2015/04/24 20:21:34
Vokalzz
Another issue im running into is this.......
 
When I goto automate the track I use the green output meeter as a guide. For example: lets say I take the vocal part of the verse. I start to aline all the vocals between -12db and -18db, this way I can have some consistency between the vocals. However, even when I do that there are some parts that sound way louder then other parts even though all the vocals fall between the -12db and -18db range. Why is this?? Whats the best way to go about this?
I want some type of volume consistency and thought by automating the vocals withing a certain DB range that this would work. Should I not be looking at the Green output meeter or should I just go by what my ear tells me to try and get the consistency? Im so confused!!! uh!! I feel like a newb, but know that I can figure this out with your guys help. Thanks guys!
2015/04/24 20:28:31
Sanderxpander
Always, always go by your ears. A plain dB meter does not tell the whole story. Our ears perceive certain types of sounds as louder than others (such as distorted guitars vs clean ones), and they don't register all frequencies equally either. A dB meter ignores all this. It's a rough visual guide of healthy levels but your ears are always the ultimate decision makers.
2015/04/24 20:50:03
bz2838
mudgel
Music is a dynamic means of expression. Why do you want it all at one level.

+1
2015/04/24 22:01:27
Anderton
To do what the OP wants, I prefer multiband compression over compression, and multiband limiting over multiband compression. YMMV.
2015/04/25 00:01:36
Jim Roseberry
If the OP knows ahead of time that the dynamics are dramatically different between sections, it might be beneficial to record each section separately.  Gain could be increased while recording the quieter sections...
This would make the mixing job a little easier.
 
For the existing track:
Don't forget that you have track based AND clip based volume envelopes.
If it's just a matter of getting the quiet parts a bit louder, split those sections off into separate clips and use clip envelopes to create a (static) gain change for just those clips.
You've also got clip based processing (EFX) if you need to adjust for tonal differences or to help clarity.
 
If you're going for a natural sound, you have to be very careful with compression on acoustic guitar tracks.
Heavy handed compression can get things sounding bad real quick.
I prefer a light handed dynamics processor like a LA-2A... applied lightly.  Just to rein-in the dynamics a bit...
 
 
 
2015/04/25 10:04:25
tlw
Vokalzz
Another issue im running into is this.......
 
When I goto automate the track I use the green output meeter as a guide. For example: lets say I take the vocal part of the verse. I start to aline all the vocals between -12db and -18db, this way I can have some consistency between the vocals. However, even when I do that there are some parts that sound way louder then other parts even though all the vocals fall between the -12db and -18db range. Why is this?? Whats the best way to go about this?


Ah, that's because there's more than one way of measuring volume :-)

By default the green meter shows the peak volume. Which is the absolute maximum at that instant in time. Our ears and brains on the other hand tend to perceive volume as more as an average level. We filter out transient peaks and focus more on that average level.

What you need to keep an eye (and ear) on isn't just the peaks but the RMS level of the tracks/busses. RMS levels reflect our perception of volume much more than peak levels. A classic example is the guitarist who sets up a fuzz or distortion so it sounds deafening compared to their clean tone at home then finds on stage when they hit the footswitch at the start of their solo rather than their volume leaping up they disappear in the mix. The pedal is applying a lot of compression, which raises the RMS volume, so it sounds louder on it's own than the clean sound, but the clean peaks are actually much louder than the peak produced by the pedal. The apparent volume of things can be very deceptive.

Another example is banjos. The peak volume out of a good plectrum banjo might be 110dB or more at one metre (I've measured one so I know). But that's only for a few milliseconds as the pick hits the strings. The bulk of the output is much lower, which is a good thing because the transient volume if sustained would be literally deafening in a very short time. When we listen to a banjo it's that lower, average, volume our nervous system uses to assess how loud it is.

I suggest you set up Sonar's playback metering on tracks, busses and master to show RMS as well as peak volumes. You don't want the peaks to go over, but for consistent volume aligning the RMS volume to similar levels will produce a much more consistent sounding volume. If the gap between RMS and peak is so large you can't raise RMS without the oeaks going to high, reducing that difference is what compressors were invented for.
2015/09/26 10:24:53
Vokalzz
TLW that was very insightful! I know this is a late response but ive done a little more research from then till now and I find what your saying is very true. Thats exactly what im looking to do. I dont want to take away dynamics but just keep a overall basic consistency to the song and RMS is seeming that it will suit what im looking to do. However, What RMS inserts do we have in cakewalk?? 
 
I could do RMS leveling, get good basic leveling from that. Then maybe light multi compression. That should work just fine without taking away any dynamics.
 
Again, Thank you all for investing your time in helping me out. This has been a great learning experience and I hope others will take something from this conversation.
2015/09/27 18:29:20
tlw
Thanks for the praise :-)

The usual tool for reducing the difference between peak volume and RMS/"average" is a compressor. Or a limiter, which is basically a compressor that clamps down harder. Cakewalk's Pro-Channel Concrete Limiter is inexpensive and very good, as is Wave's L2 though unless you get L2 at a sale price it's rather expensive.

You can set up Sonar's meters to show peak, RMS or both for both recording and playback (right click on the meters to see the options). Personally I use peak while recording because I don't want to go "over", then RMS and peak for mixing.

There is quite a number of good metering plugins for free or next to free as well. Voxengo's is useful.
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