• SONAR
  • Is MIDI Indicator Supposed to Look Like This?
2018/03/19 02:42:35
King Conga
I had a jpeg to upload but the system won't let me see my Desktop.  Anyhoo, I've been trying to figure out why my external keyboard isn't able to play any of its internal sounds thru ONLY MIDI trks. It'll play fine if I add an AUDIO track who's input uses the  OUTPUT from the MIDI that the keyboard's MAIN OUT cables are plugged into.  I'm seeing a slash mark going thru the MIDI indicator right beside the AUDIO engine indicator. The MIDI is grayed out.  I know the obvious answer is that should mean it won't play MIDI, but then why will all MIDI tracks (NOT Instrument tracks) show activity on its meters.  In fact, the clipping indicators for my analog channels on my interface will turn red but they just won't sound.
 
I've looked at every control in the Prefs (advanced) menu.  I even tried to see if there was a MIDI setting I could change in the Config file. I hope all this makes sense.  As I say, I tried to attach a jpeg to make things simpler.
2018/03/19 05:37:54
scook
Images must be uploaded to a hosting service such as imgur.com and then linked to a post. When adding an image make sure to use the link to the image (IOW the url will have an image extension such as png or jpg) and not the page containing the image.
2018/03/21 21:30:53
tecknot
King Conga
I had a jpeg to upload but the system won't let me see my Desktop.  Anyhoo, I've been trying to figure out why my external keyboard isn't able to play any of its internal sounds thru ONLY MIDI trks. It'll play fine if I add an AUDIO track who's input uses the  OUTPUT from the MIDI that the keyboard's MAIN OUT cables are plugged into.  I'm seeing a slash mark going thru the MIDI indicator right beside the AUDIO engine indicator. The MIDI is grayed out.  I know the obvious answer is that should mean it won't play MIDI, but then why will all MIDI tracks (NOT Instrument tracks) show activity on its meters.  In fact, the clipping indicators for my analog channels on my interface will turn red but they just won't sound.
 
I've looked at every control in the Prefs (advanced) menu.  I even tried to see if there was a MIDI setting I could change in the Config file. I hope all this makes sense.  As I say, I tried to attach a jpeg to make things simpler.


I'm a little confused.  If you are trying to record your keyboard's internal sounds (audio) then you must use audio inputs to audio tracks in SONAR and not MIDI.  MIDI will only send digital data and not sound(s)/audio from your keyboard.  It is not possible to see or use MIDI output (from your keyboard or interface) as an input in SONAR's audio track(s), unless, within SONAR, you are using a MIDI track's output as an input to an audio track.  So I am guessing that the cables from your "keyboard's MAIN OUT" is audio and not MIDI.  Other than the audio cable(s) from your keyboard to your interface, are you using a five pin DIN cable from your keyboard to your interface (then to your PC) or are you connecting your keyboard directly to your computer?
 
As for the clipping indicator on your interface, that is for an audio (analog) signal and not MIDI.
 
Kind regards,
 
tecknot
2018/03/21 22:14:09
King Conga
OK. Ignore what I said about the audio tracks. I know MIDI does NOT play sounds, it only triggers them. So, when I create a stnd MIDI track (NOT Instrument trk) I can see the Sonar MIDI track's meter responding to my MIDI signals, but no sound is produced.  For the same token, that same MIDI track WILL record MIDI notes/events, but when I play back that clip again, no sound is produced. ONLY when I create an extra audio track (think back to when Real Guitar came out and you had to create a MIDI AND Audio track) for the separate Audio signal to go to the Analog Inputs on my interface do I hear any sound.  So, what that tells me is that my keyboard s'ware is properly telling the MIDI event to trigger a sound, AND the sound is obviously being fed all the way through in order to make sound.  That shows me the problem is NOT in my keyboard, or cables, OR interface.  However, I'll admit that there could be a MIDI glitch in the interface between converting the MIDI to Audio.
 
But here's what makes me think it's Sonar. The MIDI indicator that's RIGHT beside the audio engine light in the Time Display window, THAT MIDI indicator has the slash bar across it like you see on traffic signs "DON'T GO HERE!", THAT MIDI indicator is grayed out, and will NOT work, or reset by ANY means.  You can click on it til the cows come home and the Audio engine stays on, but never the MIDI engine.  And BTW, there IS a dialogue box where you can determine which MIDI channels are active.  I can't remember exactly how you get there, but I have mine set so that when you're recording MIDI data on a track that ONLY THAT track will record anything, and your instrument HAS to be set on that MIDI channel.  Sounds like a pain, but it actually forces organization when things get hectic.
 
Hope that clears things up a bit.
KC
2018/03/21 23:09:04
Cactus Music
That's a reset or what we used to call the "PANIC BUTTON" used for stuck notes. 
 
Read my tutorial on how to set up midi or read the Sonar documentation on using midi. 
Your answers are easily found there. 
 
http://www.cactusmusic.ca/Sonarmidi.htm  
2018/03/22 00:10:01
tecknot
Wait, you are trying to record the internal sounds from your keyboard (synth) into SONAR, correct?  In that case using MIDI is not the way to go but only the keyboard audio/analog outputs to your interface to your PC and then in SONAR via an audio track. 
 
Alternatively, you can record the MIDI data as you are playing your keyboard with its MIDI out routed to your PC in some fashion, which I believe you have already, then to a MIDI track.  However, don't expect sound coming out of that MIDI track even if you have a corresponding audio track for that MIDI track. You must have a softsynth inserted in SONAR with the keyboard's MIDI routed to it in order to hear the MIDI playback or have the MIDI signal in SONAR routed out to your keyboard and then route that audio back into SONAR.   As mentioned in my first paragraph, there is no point in routing MIDI from SONAR back to your keyboard if it is already connected via the audio/analog route.  That will only trigger "ghost' notes since the MIDI coming back to your keyboard will retrigger the notes you already played into the audio channel but with latency with respect to your performance.  Unless, as one of my keyboards has, turn off the audio playback on your keyboard (if it has speakers) and then you can record your performance which is still routed via the keyboard's analog outputs to your interface. This way you will only hear your performance from SONAR's output.
 
This might sound a little arcane but image if your keyboard was not a keyboard but a rackmount synth and you want to playback the MIDI (in SONAR) through the rackmount synth.  Then you would route the MIDI from SONAR to the synth (with the MIDI in SONAR as the originating source).  So, unless you want to hear and record both your keyboard's sounds and a softsynth in SONAR, then insert a softsynth in SONAR route your MIDI to that track.  If you just want to record the sound of your keyboard into SONAR and the MIDI data of your performance, then just route the analog outs of your keyboard to SONAR (via your interface, of course) and route the MIDI out to your PC via your interface or USB (which you did not answer) appropriately.  Don't bother routing the MIDI track in SONAR back to your keyboard since you already have it connected via analog connections.
 
Ugh, I hope I covered all possibilities here.  Hit me back if I missed it.
 
Kind regards,
 
tecknot
2018/03/22 01:53:51
King Conga
Sorry. With all due respect Tecknot, I've NEVER had to create an extra audio track to hear the keyboard internal samples my MIDI tracks are playing...EVER, and I've been using Cakewalk since DOS 5 version. Which now that I think about it, VST didn't come out until way into the 90's, and Cakewalk could play my Kurz 2k sounds just fine when there was no such thing as an audio track in Cakewalk. Cactus was indeed correct about the MIDI Panic button. It's just been awhile since I'd had any MIDI problems, and I knew the audio engine would gray out when that went out, so I was thinking that could be the problem. I did go to his MIDI link just to see if something jogged my memory. The only thing that gave me any ideas to look was the Track Inspector.  I've NEVER had any problem getting my keyboard play through MIDI.
2018/03/22 04:21:19
tecknot
No problem King, but with all due respect, SONAR always required both a MIDI track and an audio track (to hear the audio playback of the MIDI) until the intervention of the Simple track option (or rely on the default playback through TTS1).  You could insert just a MIDI track, but you also needed to route the output of the MIDI track to either a softsynth or a hardware synth and then setting the input in an audio track from the synth's output to hear the playback.  If you are just routing your MIDI track out to your keyboard (say in a project without any audio tracks) and it is playing back the audio then you are only hearing from your keyboard speakers and not SONAR.  However, from what I read in your post in bold below, you need an audio track to hear the MIDI playback in SONAR as always (unless you are routing the audio from your keyboard to SONAR regardless of the MIDI).  I believe SONAR used to give you the option to create a corresponding audio track or you could set it up to always do this by unchecking "Ask me every time".
 
You can verify this by inserting an instrument track then right clicking on it and choose "Split instrument track" and you will then have a MIDI track for the MIDI data and a corresponding audio track to hear the playback.  Without the MIDI track being routed to a synth (hard or soft) and that synth routed to an audio track (by simply select the appropriate input in the audio track) you will not hear anything from the MIDI data (track).
 
King Conga
OK. Ignore what I said about the audio tracks. I know MIDI does NOT play sounds, it only triggers them. So, when I create a stnd MIDI track (NOT Instrument trk) I can see the Sonar MIDI track's meter responding to my MIDI signals, but no sound is produced.  For the same token, that same MIDI track WILL record MIDI notes/events, but when I play back that clip again, no sound is produced. ONLY when I create an extra audio track (think back to when Real Guitar came out and you had to create a MIDI AND Audio track) for the separate Audio signal to go to the Analog Inputs on my interface do I hear any sound.  So, what that tells me is that my keyboard s'ware is properly telling the MIDI event to trigger a sound, AND the sound is obviously being fed all the way through in order to make sound.  That shows me the problem is NOT in my keyboard, or cables, OR interface.  However, I'll admit that there could be a MIDI glitch in the interface between converting the MIDI to Audio.



Oh, you must also enable echo.  Just for clarification on the matter.
 
Kind regards,
 
tecknot
2018/03/22 14:02:05
57Gregy
"SONAR always required both a MIDI track and an audio track (to hear the audio playback of the MIDI)"
 
Unless you have the MIDI track's output set to the interface the MIDI is plugged into or the USB port it's plugged into, thus playing the MIDI back through the keyboard and not using any soft synths.
2018/03/22 14:55:28
tecknot
57Gregy
"SONAR always required both a MIDI track and an audio track (to hear the audio playback of the MIDI)"
 
Unless you have the MIDI track's output set to the interface the MIDI is plugged into or the USB port it's plugged into, thus playing the MIDI back through the keyboard and not using any soft synths.


Yes, you are right Greg, but if you want to record the audio from the MIDI going back to the keyboard, then the keyboard must be routed back to an audio track in SONAR, hence the need for an audio track.  Otherwise, you will hear the playback directly from the keyboard via speakers from the keyboard itself or main off of the interface, but not in SONAR.  What I am describing is routing in SONAR.  I am pretty sure that I was clear in that context when I mentioned "in SONAR" as indicated in my previous post quoted below:
tecknot
...If you are just routing your MIDI track out to your keyboard (say in a project without any audio tracks) and it is playing back the audio then you are only hearing from your keyboard speakers and not SONAR...


 
Kind regards,
 
tecknot
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