I've recently found myself doing video for local shows. I've never really done this before and what seems like a good way to do it is proving to be a bit of a hassle.
 
A few weeks ago I recorded a show for a friend. It was mainly to try and get a feel for it. I have a Sony field recorder that sounds pretty freaking good. I thought that since it has a line input I could connect directly to tape out on the mixer then mix the live sound from the camera with the mixed recording from the board. I've tested this in my own band room and works very well. Syncing audio separate video and audio sources are a pain though.
 
I figured it may be a challenge getting a sound guy to allow it, even though there would be zero problems or extra work for him. But this guy tried making sound like it is a major deal. "I can do it, but you need to get with me before the show so I can setup sub outs blah blah blah..." I said, no I just need the tape out right there at the top of the board...
 
I guess he either didn't have a clue what that was or simply didn't want to do it. Anyway, here's my question for you guys that record live shows.
 
What do you use? My camera isn't exactly a little handy cam. It's a Canon XHA1 and does a great job. I can connect 2 external mics and control the audio input levels right from the camera, but that still doesn't sound great. The field recorder just picking up the room noise and such does sound a bit better. Would I need to invest in a small mixer and setup mics and mix the sound that way in Sonar from my laptop or what?
 
 

You can use the tape outs, but it may not sound that good. Live sound is typically sound reinforcement, so the mix for the house just beefs up the natural sound of the band. For example, if the guitar player has a loud amp, I may not have much, if anything, of that in the house mix. If the bass is weak, I might have to push it up. Chances are I really don't need to put much of any drums into the house mix (even when they are in a drum cage). So the mix you would get off the house mixer would be full of base, no drums and a little guitar, plus whatever ambient noise enters the mics.
 
Depending on the mixer, there may be a row that is just for a separate mix (sometimes used for mixing the stage monitors, sometimes it can be used for recording). Our Allen and Heath 2800 has this at the bottom, separate from the faders, has a gain and pan knob. It can be sent to a separate out. This would allow you to record from the house board and get a better mix than straight off the tape out. A couple of caveats with this.You and the house sound guy will be doing a dance as each of you try to work the same board. Not impossible, but you need to work together. Second, you will need to mix in headphones. No matter how good the headphones are, some of the house will bleed in. This can mess up what you think you are hearing in the recording.
 
Hope that helps. Good luck!

I've some out of the FOH mixers Direct Outs, 16 of them straight into the line ins.
 
But you'd better co-operate closely with the FOH guy and makes sure that if the option exists, the direct outs are set to PRE fader/gain

What MandoPicker said... I have tons of board recordings from medium sized clubs where everything was mic'd BUT the vocals are blaring (because singers don't show up with amps) and everything else except the kick and snare is an afterthought.
 
What the dude was saying is he wanted to create a sub mix especially to output to the camera so you could actually have a decent recording. It's actually pretty cool he was willing to do that.
 
I've paid sound guys just to get the raw board mix onto a CD at the end of a gig... which as I said was mostly vocals.

Good stuff to know, thanks.
 
Lets say I can't work with the sound guy for whatever reason. What would be my best options then?

My Dad used to get excellent results with a Zoom H2 mounted 7 feet up on a pole in the center of the venue - not always feasible for rock concerts.
 
he said the sound was better than that captured by his expensive stereo pair AKGs... so he switched.
 
This is probably not a viable solution for you...

stickman393
My Dad used to get excellent results with a Zoom H2 mounted 7 feet up on a pole in the center of the venue - not always feasible for rock concerts.
 
he said the sound was better than that captured by his expensive stereo pair AKGs... so he switched.
 
This is probably not a viable solution for you...

That's pretty much what I ended up doing. Instead of a Zoom I have a Sony.

I bought the Tascam DR 50 because I like to record live shows. What I like the most is it has the XLR inputs as well as the built in mikes and you can record 4 tracks. You sort of need at least that for live shows. 
As said the output of a FOH mixer will be vocal hot. And it's a crap shoot to "guess" at a sub mix without being isolated from the room. So ultimatly you capture as many seperate tracks as possible if you need a great mix. Some sound people don't want you to have the board mix because you go home with proof they might not have done a very good job.
 
I get almost all I need if I set the recorder up at the FOH mix possition up hi on a mike stand, and then steal a board mix. I'm doing the sound so I cheat a little and try and push the backline and drums in the mix. 
It's nice if there is spare AUX channels and then I can say, put the vocals in the left and the Bass and Kick to the right.  The ambient mikes will be stereo and the little recorder sould pick up what you are hearing. Having the direct board mixed in with the ambient tightens up the sound and buy nudging the tracks time a hair you can get good results. Depends on how far back you where. 
 
For the best results a multi track recording cannot be beat. But to do this you need a mixer with direct outs on all channels and an audio interface that has enough inputs.
 
One other option I've used was to ignore the PA system and add your own mikes to the stage.
You can do a lot with 8 good mikes.  

Bflat5
Good stuff to know, thanks.
 
Lets say I can't work with the sound guy for whatever reason. What would be my best options then?

Find a way to make nice and befriend him.
 
Rocky

As I said if you find it hard to work with the FOH person then just place mikes on the stage and record each one to Sonar. I have a Tascam us1641 ( now the 16x08) and they are only $300. 
This gives you 8 XLR inputs and 6 more via a small mixer and the line inputs.
I once  double miked the stage and stole the vocals and a horn section from using the back or the Monitor power amps. Most have parallel connections you can patch to. 
A lot of Bass rigs have an extra DI output. The possibilities are many if you creative and know where to look on stage for patching points. The band will be on your side even if the FOH person is aloof.