Hi guys, Just a quick question. I realize the recording of the synth to an audio track is done real time but does your driver settings affect the recording. For example will I have to reduce latency when I record the synth to an audio track. It's not a biggie as I regularly change my buffer settings depending on what I'm doing, lower for recording and higher for mixing.
Thanks in advance guys.
Andrew

I can't see how it would be any different from the usual method. Latency is important when you play on your keyboard. Some plugin are more expensive than others. If you run into performances issue you would have to up your buffers of course.
 
Maybe the question here is how much stain does this put on CPU load? If you have a stereo synth I suspect it would be as much as two audio tracks worth.
 
That's what I'm thinking anyway...

sausy1981
Hi guys, Just a quick question. I realize the recording of the synth to an audio track is done real time but does your driver settings affect the recording. For example will I have to reduce latency when I record the synth to an audio track. It's not a biggie as I regularly change my buffer settings depending on what I'm doing, lower for recording and higher for mixing.
Thanks in advance guys.
Andrew

You can record at any latency setting that suits you. There is no special restriction or overhead on synth audio recording.
 
There is one important fundamental difference with "virtual port recording" however that you should be aware of.
Since the audio source is not hardware we do not apply any hardware input latency compensation. Since the synth source could be a mix of audio from "live input" as well as sequenced data (if you have MIDI tracks simultaneously triggering the synth) we cannot make any assumptions about the recorded audio or it would lead to timing errors.
 
Since the timing of what you play will be impacted by the audio buffer size (you will hear the synth one buffer late) you may need to play ahead of the beat to be in sync with playback. That's why we recommend using smaller latency when tracking.
 

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]

sausy1981
Hi guys, Just a quick question. I realize the recording of the synth to an audio track is done real time but does your driver settings affect the recording. For example will I have to reduce latency when I record the synth to an audio track. It's not a biggie as I regularly change my buffer settings depending on what I'm doing, lower for recording and higher for mixing.
Thanks in advance guys.
Andrew

You can record at any latency setting that suits you. There is no special restriction or overhead on synth audio recording.
 
There is one important fundamental difference with "virtual port recording" however that you should be aware of.
Since the audio source is not hardware we do not apply any hardware input latency compensation. Since the synth source could be a mix of audio from "live input" as well as sequenced data (if you have MIDI tracks simultaneously triggering the synth) we cannot make any assumptions about the recorded audio or it would lead to timing errors.
 
Since the timing of what you play will be impacted by the audio buffer size (you will hear the synth one buffer late) you may need to play ahead of the beat to be in sync with playback. That's why we recommend using smaller latency when tracking.
 

Thanks Noel, That was the way I was thinking it would work and makes perfect sense to me. Thanks for your reply.

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
There is one important fundamental difference with "virtual port recording" however that you should be aware of.
Since the audio source is not hardware we do not apply any hardware input latency compensation. Since the synth source could be a mix of audio from "live input" as well as sequenced data (if you have MIDI tracks simultaneously triggering the synth) we cannot make any assumptions about the recorded audio or it would lead to timing errors.
 

I can understand what is about, but I don't fully understand some details. I've tried some recordings and here is what I get. When I record midi and audio simultaneously a have audio delayed (742 samples in my case). Is this because Sonar doesn't know if this is real-time playing or playing previously recorded midi? If so, I'd prefer to report that I'm recording real-time to be able to auto-compensate this delay, I don't know if it is possible to implement, just thoughts.
When I record audio from synth with already recorded midi, it still doesn't match frozen audio. Somehow it records 2 samples earlier to that. But it was in beginning, after some time of experimenting with the project, in one moment it started recording in sync with frozen audio. It seems a bit strange.

The recorded audio is only available after the synth has received a note and processed it. Since real time MIDI timing is not sample accurate and humans can't play with sample accuracy <g> by definition there will be a delay when the audio is actually produced. However the way its handled the audio should always be perfectly in sync with any recorded MIDI when played back. If you are not seeing that then there is an issue. I've tested this at very high latency and MIDI and audio was always in sync both while recording and playing back.

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
The recorded audio is only available after the synth has received a note and processed it. Since real time MIDI timing is not sample accurate and humans can't play with sample accuracy <g> by definition there will be a delay when the audio is actually produced.

Ah, ok. So when I record Midi and Audio simultaneously the delay is slightly different for every note because of some jitter? Is that why it can't be auto-compensated? But the delay is pretty big, it is around Total Roundtrip latency reported by Audio Interface but doesn't exactly match it. Would not it be better just to move recorded audio to the left by this latency value?
 

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
However the way its handled the audio should always be perfectly in sync with any recorded MIDI when played back. If you are not seeing that then there is an issue. I've tested this at very high latency and MIDI and audio was always in sync both while recording and playing back.

I tried it with Z3ta+2. I record some midi notes with initialized program, with one osc added. After that I freeze it twice, copying audio to new tracks. Two frozen audio clips have ~ -120db difference. Then I record audio from Z3ta+2 instead of freezing, and this audio is 2 sample ahead of frozen clips, so when I add 2 samples delay it has ~-120db difference with frozen clips. But maybe it is normal? Because there could be difference between real-time and off-line processing?

I am not sure the following effect can be related, but...
 
If I record 2 MIDI tracks simultaneously, one "live" and another as MIDI output from VST which input is set to the first track, the second MIDI track is delayed. But if I record just second track, so the first track is in "play" mode, the resulted second track is not delayed. The effect exists at least since X2 and it is still present in the latest update.

Adq
Ah, ok. So when I record Midi and Audio simultaneously the delay is slightly different for every note because of some jitter? Is that why it can't be auto-compensated? But the delay is pretty big, it is around Total Roundtrip latency reported by Audio Interface but doesn't exactly match it. Would not it be better just to move recorded audio to the left by this latency value?
 I tried it with Z3ta+2. I record some midi notes with initialized program, with one osc added. After that I freeze it twice, copying audio to new tracks. Two frozen audio clips have ~ -120db difference. Then I record audio from Z3ta+2 instead of freezing, and this audio is 2 sample ahead of frozen clips, so when I add 2 samples delay it has ~-120db difference with frozen clips. But maybe it is normal? Because there could be difference between real-time and off-line processing?

No you misunderstood, there is no jitter between the audio and the MIDI. Its hard to explain - I was referring to when you press a key on your keyboard and actually hear a note. At that point the earliest you may hear it is is one buffer later but it could be later depending on MIDI jitter. However when you play back the recorded audio and MIDI they should be perfectly lined up if you zoom in.
 
I can't quite follow your example with Z3TA. Differences in playback could be because of randomization within Z3TA. However MIDI and audio should be perfectly lined up on the timeline as explained above. I suggest using a simpler instrument that is more deterministic if you want to test this. Maybe SI-Piano or something..

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
However when you play back the recorded audio and MIDI they should be perfectly lined up if you zoom in.

Sorry, I don't understand again. Is this in case when audio recorded from previously recorded midi only, or in case if midi and audio is recorded simultaneously too, because I have different results in this cases?

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
I can't quite follow your example with Z3TA. Differences in playback could be because of randomization within Z3TA. However MIDI and audio should be perfectly lined up on the timeline as explained above. I suggest using a simpler instrument that is more deterministic if you want to test this. Maybe SI-Piano or something..

The same is with SI-Electric Piano default patch. And I believe it is not randomization, because frozen audio always remain the same, and recorded is actually the same, but 2 samples earlier.