• SONAR
  • Latency Question??
2015/08/27 21:42:29
jason216
Ok...I'm tired of just feeling that I have to live with this so here goes...........
Sonar X2 Producer/Windows7/64bit..not that any of that matters lol
 
I want to record a vocal track with a little reverb in the monitor (headphones)..not printed.
If I turn off the little blue square (input echo) and the track is not recording, just sitting there...I hear myself dry and there is no latency. When I hit record the echoing (latency) issue is present. 
 
If I have a reverb in the fx section and turn on the blue echo button I get the reverb while I'm recording (the latency is there but not as noticeable because the reverb is drowning it out...but it's there)...but...if I leave the blue echo button on and turn off the reverb (while recording)...I get an echo like a 100 ms (probably less than that) or so....
Audio channel is routed (standard routing) into the master if that matters...nothing tricky going on there.
 
I said all of that to ask....
How can I get my recording track wet so I can sing with some reverb without the latency (delay) issue happening?
Pre or Post have anything to do with this?  
 
Thanks
Jason 
 
2015/08/27 22:08:18
scook
You fail to mention the most important piece of gear WRT latency...the audio interface. If the interface cannot perform at low latency settings, monitoring through the DAW will not be successful.
2015/08/28 09:53:26
jason216
My bad....I'm using a Focusrite Scarlett 8I 6. It's a pretty good interface however. Not the absolute best, but better than decent.
I hope I can solve this issue. It's not so bad for me since I'm used to it, but when I have other people over to record it's really distracting to them so I end up recording them with dry headphones...functional, but certainly not ideal.
Thanks scook...I really appreciate the help 
Jason
2015/08/28 09:57:16
57Gregy
What is the latency setting for the Focusrite and can you reduce it without introducing noise or audio dropouts?
2015/08/28 10:30:51
scook
Set the ASIO buffers to 128 or less and if the latency is still too high, make sure there are no any plug-ins which are causing PDC (plug-in delay compensation) to get too high. The easiest way to diagnose whether it is a plug-in problem is hit the "E" key an if the latency goes away, it is caused by PDC. The problem plug-ins are often dynamics processors with lookahead buffers but could also be convolution reverbs. If it is a plug-in issue, either replace the plug-ins, remove them (turning them off will not reduce PDC), freeze the offending tracks or bounce the project to a temporarily stereo mix and archive everything else.
2015/08/28 12:54:18
jason216
Scook...I don't have plug ins on the channel or on any of the busses or the main. so that's out of the way.....Everything is absolutely clean. In an "armed" track...If I turn off the echo (the now grey square in Sonar) and just talk...it is dry as expected...If I turn the echo on (blue square)...the latency issue appears...with that said...lol
 
Where do I go to find the buffer options. I went to Edit>preferences>audio>Driver settings>mixing latency>to the drop down aiso panel
 
I found an asio panel but the options available are different than you stated 
it says input 11.3 msec 500 sample
          output 16.3 msec 721 samples
Those are the current numbers at 5 ms. I set the buffer length inside the aiso panel drop down to 5 ms  (I moved it from 10 ms, the default setting, and I'm not sure if I'll have drop out issues at 5ms as I haven't record enough yet to see. But the latency issue is pretty much the same 
If I can figure out how to put a pic here that might help
Again thanks
Jason
Been a loyal cakewalk user since dos 3.0...I love this product. There is not another program out there that handles midi as well as cakewalk...I really appreciate that.
2015/08/28 13:16:33
scook
jason216
Scook...I don't have plug ins on the channel or on any of the busses or the main. so that's out of the way.....Everything is absolutely clean. In an "armed" track...If I turn off the echo (the now grey square in Sonar) and just talk...it is dry as expected...If I turn the echo on (blue square)...the latency issue appears...with that said...lol

I assume there are no plug-ins on any track as PDC affects all tracks/buses. But I think it s a combination of too high a buffer setting and monitoring both direct and DAW at the same time for the recording track. I believe the focusrite has control software, similar to a software mixer, if not it must have a way to adjust the direct signal and signal return from the DAW. If you intend to monitor the recording signal through the DAW, you cannot monitor the direct signal too without experiencing an echo. The direct signal will always hit the hardware outputs before the DAW. If you want to monitor the recording signal through the DAW, the tracks should make no sound without input echo is enabled.
 
jason216
I found an asio panel but the options available are different than you stated 
it says input 11.3 msec 500 sample
          output 16.3 msec 721 samples
Those are the current numbers at 5 ms. I set the buffer length inside the aiso panel drop down to 5 ms  (I moved it from 10 ms, the default setting, and I'm not sure if I'll have drop out issues at 5ms as I haven't record enough yet to see. But the latency issue is pretty much the same 
If I can figure out how to put a pic here that might help

A round trip of 27ms is too high for monitoring through the DAW. 10ms should be workable as long as the direct signal is not mixed with the same signal coming from the DAW.
2015/08/31 16:04:05
jason216
Scook,
 
Re:... 'monitoring both direct and DAW at the same time for the recording track.' 
Interesting...Is there a way to only monitor through the Focusrite?
 
My signal path - I'm coming out of the Focusrite (line outs in the back, not the monitor output for the phones that's on the front) into my studio board, then I take a feed to my speakers, and my headphones are plugged into the board as well. I'm not listening from my computer headphone jack.I thought that was the way to prevent this.
I had Pro Tools for years and this wasn't an issue, so I'm thinking there has to be a way. Maybe bypassing the DAW (and if there's a way....tell me) would fix this...
Thanks 
Jason
2015/08/31 16:20:08
scook
The MixControl software should be able to route the input signal anywhere you want.
2015/09/01 19:23:54
jason216
Scook,
I tied everything I could think of and I guess I'm just going to have to live with this. I just know there's a way to eradicate this, but I can't seem to push the right combinations of buttons.  I went to the Focusrite Mix Control (first time I've actually opened that thanks for pointing that out...)
I quit using Pro Tools after 15 years, (just got tired of the way they are doing business these days) and this wasn't an issue. I guess I had the right buttons pushed lol...oh well I love my Cakewalk products, and although I used Pro Tools for recording, I've only ever, well since 1996 or so, used cakewalk to do all my sequences. I love this thing, and Sonar is a much more user friendly recording platform to use as well.  
 
***if you ever want to enter my comp on a lazy day and see if you can fix this...I'm open to that...just sayin' lol***
 
I just wanted to thank you very much for your time...I appreciate it
Jason
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