• SONAR
  • Attention: Pianists using X3
2014/04/27 01:26:37
gmp
I'm using X3e and I've noticed sustain pedal errors in X3e compared to none in 8.53, when recording piano. I created a CWP file in X3 and played it and at times it sounded like the sustain pedal was held down running the notes together. When the same file is played in 8.5 it sounds fine the sustain pedal works correctly. I've tried it in 32 bit X3 and 64 bit X3 with the same results.

I recorded the audio using X3 and then recorded audio using 8.5 so you can hear the difference. I also submitted a bug report with a BUN file. In this example you can look at the sus pedal in piano roll view. The sus pedal is running everything together as if it was held down the whole time. You can erase all sus pedal events except first one and it sounds the same. It's seems like the first sus pedal event is overriding all the other ones.

This doesn't happen all the time, I use the sustain pedal, but when it happens and it's recorded then it does happen every time it's played back. I'm not sure why it happens. It's very strange. I can play back the same piano track triggering my external synths and the sustain pedal works fine. The problem only occurs using softsynths inside of X3.


Here's the small 4 bar bun file or the 2 mp3s, if you prefer not to use the bun file.
https://onedrive.live.com...d=C256E2DAE26B22A5!105

Has anyone else noticed this? I've upgraded recently form 8.53 to X3e.
2014/04/27 02:07:49
soens
You can't upload it here but you can host it on another sight like MS SkyDrive and post a link to it.
 
I recommend uploading just the track (clip) in question so we can see the controller data.
 
Also let us know which soft synths you're using it with.
 
Steve
2014/04/27 02:19:53
gmp
soens
You can't upload it here but you can host it on another sight like MS SkyDrive and post a link to it.
 
I recommend uploading just the track (clip) in question so we can see the controller data.
 
Also let us know which soft synths you're using it with.
 
Steve


Thanks for the suggestion, Steve. I went ahead and uploaded the bun file and edited my post with the link
2014/04/27 03:30:10
brundlefly
The MIDI plays normally with pedal up rendered properly here though I had to load a new instance of TTS-1 as something caused my X3e installation to report TTS-1 missing for the existing instance. Also, I slip-edited the clip to full length as it was set to end after a pedal down as received which made it sound like the pedal was stuck at the end.
 
In any case, I've already recorded plenty of piano with sustain in X3 to know there are no issues with it in general.
 
The first thing I would suggest is to try increasing your MIDI Prepare Using buffer to 500ms if it's at the default of 250. Preferences > MIDI > Playback and Recording.
 
 
 
 
2014/04/27 11:22:59
brundlefly
No, the clip was slip-edited down to 3 measures from about 7 - presumably deliberately to keep the audio samples small. I reset my interface to 44.1kHz, and listened to the recordings. The one labeled X3 is definitely not honoring Pedal Ups, but I think it must be something simple like the Prepare Using buffer being too small. There's nothing wrong with the MIDI clip itself.
 
Also, I'm thinking my issue with loading TTS-1 is that the OP is running 32-bit SONAR, and I no longer have the 32-bit DX installed.
2014/04/27 11:57:12
gmp
brundlefly
The MIDI plays normally with pedal up rendered properly here though I had to load a new instance of TTS-1 as something caused my X3e installation to report TTS-1 missing for the existing instance. Also, I slip-edited the clip to full length as it was set to end after a pedal down as received which made it sound like the pedal was stuck at the end.
 
In any case, I've already recorded plenty of piano with sustain in X3 to know there are no issues with it in general.
 
The first thing I would suggest is to try increasing your MIDI Prepare Using buffer to 500ms if it's at the default of 250. Preferences > MIDI > Playback and Recording.
 
 
 
 




Thanks for looking into this. Just so we're perfectly clear, did you listen to the audio, one recorded in X3 and one in 8.5? Did you then play the midi track and see if the sus pedal moved in the up position like in the 8.5 example? After playing the midi example, which audio example did it sound most like?
 
I've tried increasing the MIDI Prepare Using buffer to 500ms from the default of 250 and I also tried moving the other buffer from 64 to 128 and then played the midi example. It sounded the same.
 
You're right the clip was a much longer clip and it was exhibiting the problem with the long clip and I shortened it to make a shorter example, so the slip editing fix isn't the problem.
 
It doesn't exhibit this problem every time. I haven't been able to figure out exactly what kind of playing causes this. I tried playing a chromatic scale using the pedal for each note, playing at different tempos, moving the pedal a little differently sometimes and it all played back perfectly.
 
I tried playing both hands playing busier chromatic chord patterns and it played back fine.  It seems like more complex playing  with the sus pedal moving at more unpredictable times triggers it. I've only been using X3 for about 3 weeks and just noticed a lot more sus pedal errors. Many times I fixed them by punching back in. Other times I moved the sus pedal events.
2014/04/27 12:27:19
brundlefly
Hi Gerry. Yes, as mentioned, I listened to both examples and I can hear the problem with the track labeled X3, but I don't get that when playing back or rendering the TTS-1 output. My X3 rendering sounds like the example in your 8.5 track.
 
I'm not sure what the issue is, but I think some preference in X3 must be set differently than in 8.5. that or there;s some issue with x86 SONAR that I'm not going to be able to reproduce because I'm running x64. Can you confirm you're running x86 SONAR? You're signature doesn't say.
 
And am I understanding correctly that this can happen with Ivory and other soft synths as well as TTS-1? Can you reproduce it in a project started from the X3 Normal template with no FX?  I noticed you have the old FX Chorus (32-bit only, I believe) and a Waves plugin and an "S1 Imager"  plugin in this project that I don't have. You'll want to make sure a plugin isn't causing ptoblems
2014/04/27 13:35:10
gmp
brundlefly
No, the clip was slip-edited down to 3 measures from about 7 - presumably deliberately to keep the audio samples small. I reset my interface to 44.1kHz, and listened to the recordings. The one labeled X3 is definitely not honoring Pedal Ups, but I think it must be something simple like the Prepare Using buffer being too small. There's nothing wrong with the MIDI clip itself.
 
Also, I'm thinking my issue with loading TTS-1 is that the OP is running 32-bit SONAR, and I no longer have the 32-bit DX installed.



Yes, currently i'm running 32 bit, but I recently installed 64 bit X3 and will ease into it. 
 
Actually I'm using Ivory, but in the example  wanted to use something common to Sonar, so I used the TTS-1 piano. I didn't realize it was DXi and not installed by 64 bit X3 - oops
 
 
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