Direct Stream Digital (DSD)

"SONAR now supports DSD, a high definition 1-bit audio format commonly used to archive masters in high resolution"
 
For those who are not familiar with DSD audio: it's a one bit, 2.8MHz (or double DSD = 5.6MHz, or quad DSD = 11.2MHz) audio format and the closest digital representation of acoustic sounds available. The extension is .dsf (tagged with metadata) or .dff (non-tagged files).
 
My question is this. I have a recorder capable of both playing and recording 11.2MHz DSD audio-data. I will use this to capture samples. Can i use these samples for music production inside Sonar? If not, what is the extent of the functionality of DSD inside Sonar?
 
As audio-science progressed, the algorithms for the DSD-to-PCM (Delta-Sigma to PCM)) and PCM-to-DSD conversions of typical converters have been shown to have a detrimental impact on sonic performance when they are developed according to old but classic formulas. These are relatively complicated algorithms and they introduced a new phenomenon that we describe as "digital sound" or ringing effects. Hence the motivation by the engineering teams of Sony and Philips to remove such steps altogether from conversions between analog and digital. The process of the simplified DSD path bypasses the PCM path and results in higher fidelity to the sound-source. As is usually the case, most simplifications in the signal path lead to sonic improvements, and so it didn't come as a surprise when the first listening tests of DSD were so astonishing that this format was considered as an archiving format for recording studios.

Noel's List
 
Maybe the answer is in there?
 
That stuff is over my head and I'm 6'1".

From the announcement:
 
Note that today SONAR supports import and export of DSD formats. The DSD data is converted to PCM using TASCAM’s high quality DSD-to-PCM conversion process, so as expected SONAR doesn’t support editing the raw DSD data itself. Depending on interest in that feature we may consider supporting native DSD editing in the future, however editing raw DSD data has limits in a DAW as no plug-ins can handle processing that format.

I myself would be happy to work inside Sonar purely with the DSD data 'without editing' for some songs.
 
 
What exactly does Cakewalk mean when they say: "however editing raw DSD data has limits in a DAW as no plug-ins can handle processing that format."
 
Does this mean if we start with DSD data and Sonar converts it to PCM, we can then edit as normal and thus work with plugins as normal?
 
 
Cakewalk said: "SONAR supports import and export of DSD formats."
 
So, if Sonar converts the DSD data to PCM (thus allowing us to utilize the usual music-production process') inside Sonar, then Sonar allows us to save that data at the completion of the song project back to DSD, then i for one would be happy to do things that way.
 
 
I wonder if the VST format can be updated to allow plugins to process DSD audio data.
 
 

Drone7
So, if Sonar converts the DSD data to PCM (thus allowing us to utilize the usual music-production process') inside Sonar, then Sonar allows us to save that data at the completion of the song project back to DSD, then i for one would be happy to do things that way.

Then you'll be happy, because that's how it works. This gives better results than an all-PCM signal chain because elements with the potential to degrade the sound are taken out of the picture.
 
But stay tuned - the upcoming update has some very interesting improvement to the DSD export process, as well as some other additions. Definitely "technology leader"-level stuff.
 
As to making VST plug-ins DSD-compatible, I don't think that's on anyone's radar at the present time.

 
I missed the above responses, which changes some of what I wrote below.
Yes.  The samples could be lain into a SONAR project.  Of course, to use them in a sampler requires that the sampler itself can use DSD.  And I don't know if you can mix them in a project w/ pcm tracks.  But what you are using DSD for is what it is very good for - archiving.  Because you can't edit 1-bit audio.  There was a nice explanation last week (I think) about DSD at gearslutz.  Most editing of DSD stuff happens downsampled to the 384 rate (which SONAR was an early adaptor to).
 
DSD proponents claim DSD sounds more analogish than PCM digital because of the lack of filters etc.  You can listen for yourself w/ your unit - try full-range music rather than captured samples for the best bet.  Then decide.  If you do like DSD you can listen to other music using SONAR to play back (if you have DSD converters - there are some that are playback only for audiophiles).  There is a market for such and TASCAM  is the only consumer-level company still involved at the semi-pro end w/ their stereo unit. 
 
If you do prefer DSD imagine having a 4 to 8 or 12 track TASCAM modular recorder or interface (their stereo unit can be synced but you have to record all tracks at once and no punch ins.  Imagine SONAR controlling that - either switching streams for splices and punch-ins and such, or using the 384 rate to seamlessly do it.  You still won't have digital eq or compression etc (yet!), put you add that the old fashioned way - analog, along with an analog board.  DSD could replace analog tape, basically, while providing perfect archiving (no need to ever bake your solid state drives).
 
TASCAM and Cakewalk are perfectly positioned to make a cost-effective DSD recording system - anything similar today is way too costly for any home system.  I would love to have access to something like that. 
 
@

Anderton
 
But stay tuned - the upcoming update has some very interesting improvement to the DSD export process, as well as some other additions. Definitely "technology leader"-level stuff.

Are we able to use DSD and 24bit 96khz files side-by-side in Sonar? Meaning, are we able to play-back DSD files on some tracks while 24bit 96khz audio is playing-back on other tracks, and all while softsynths are playing in real-time on other tracks?


My portable Audiophile DAP (Digital Audio Player) can playback DSD files, that's why I'd be happy to save my songs from Sonar as 11.2mhz DSD files. Does Sonar support 11.2mhz DSD? I know a lot of DSD systems can only cope with 5.6mhz or 2.8mhz DSD files at the moment.

Drone7
Are we able to use DSD and 24bit 96khz files side-by-side in Sonar? Meaning, are we able to play-back DSD files on some tracks while 24bit 96khz audio is playing-back on other tracks, and all while softsynths are playing in real-time on other tracks?

 
Yes, assuming that whatever other audio you have can convert to your project's sample rate and resolution. For example if you're using a 352.8 kHz or 384 kHz sample rate for your project (not that you have to), then you'll need softsynths that can work at that rate. The 96 kHz audio will be converted to the project rate, as per the usual.

My portable Audiophile DAP (Digital Audio Player) can playback DSD files, that's why I'd be happy to save my songs from Sonar as 11.2mhz DSD files. Does Sonar support 11.2mhz DSD? I know a lot of DSD systems can only cope with 5.6mhz or 2.8mhz DSD files at the moment.

I've been able to both export and import 11.2 MHz DSD files.

AT
 
Then decide.  If you do like DSD you can listen to other music using SONAR to play back (if you have DSD converters - there are some that are playback only for audiophiles). 

 
To all extents and purposes all of us DAW producers are in actual fact "Audiophiles". The "Philes" part of "Audiophiles" is directly derived from the Greek word "Philos", which means to be fond of or love something in a general sense. Thus "Audiophiles". It just so happens that some Audiophiles are more particular and finicky about it than others. Many people walking down the street with an iPod are Audiophiles whether they realize it or not. A lover of music.
 
 

AT
 
TASCAM and Cakewalk are perfectly positioned to make a cost-effective DSD recording system - anything similar today is way too costly for any home system.  I would love to have access to something like that. 
 

I too hope that Gibson will advance the state-of-the-art with DSD inside Sonar. If Cakewalk choose to advance the format inside Sonar for music production, this whole DSD thing could put Sonar users in a very good position and may even give Sonar a big boost in sales; certainly there would be many producers out there willing to get-in on the DSD thing if they knew more about it. I for one would spread the word like wildfire if it became more streamlined and capable and practical within Sonar.
 
What a combination. Gibson Brands encompasses not only Gibson guitars, but also high-end consumer electronics (Onkyo, TEAC) and pro audio (TASCAM, KRK, Stanton):
 
Nice! That puts us in good stead i reckon. To think of Sonar as being the pioneer of modern DSD production in the DAW world, woo hoo! Seems to me the faster the 'whole' music industry swaps to all DSD playback and production the better. DSD has essentially been around since 1999. This world is so slow to adopt superior technology sometimes. I know so many people who still by DVD's not knowing how much better Blu-ray is. Despite extensive marketing and advertising campaigns for Blu-Ray over the last ten years, still seems that many people are down in the ditch with DVD; i guess ignorance really is bliss. 

Patience, Drone7...there's a bit of chicken and egg with DSD. If no consumers embrace DSD playback systems, there will be no incentive to keep producing content for them, so no demand for further advances within SONAR.
 
However...SONAR has staked a claim. We'll see what happens. And BTW, DSD is a direct result of synergy with TASCAM via Gibson Brands. I'm quite sure it won't be the last.