• SONAR
  • Problem getting sound from Sonar using Kontakt
2015/08/07 12:21:01
Skrzypiec
I'm full of good will and patience, but so far I still cannot get this one to play. Switched sound card to LogiLink® USB Soundcard UA0053 (shown as C-Media USB Headphone Set) and getting the "Out: 2x 44.1-48kHz, 16Bits Status: Unavailable with a red X next to it in the Asio4All panel. Again, the input meters show the signal transmitted from Kontakt - in my case channel 3 - to its respective routed track in Sonar, but no sound comes out. I don't even have a clue which side to approach the problem from... I guess I should take this into a new thread...
 
edited by host: split topic and changed title
2015/08/07 12:31:13
SF_Green
Welcome. First, yes go ahead and start a new thread listing your problem. It will help if you give a fairly complete listing of your system specs. One thing you should try right away is ditching ASIO4ALL. I haven't tried using it but have seen numerous posts from people here who know what they are talking about that say it's very problematic. Download the latest drivers from your soundcard manufacturer's website and try using those. But do a new thread too. There are lots of nice helpful people here who will help you get up and running. Good luck!
2015/08/07 13:17:10
Beagle
SF_Green
Welcome. First, yes go ahead and start a new thread listing your problem. It will help if you give a fairly complete listing of your system specs. One thing you should try right away is ditching ASIO4ALL. I haven't tried using it but have seen numerous posts from people here who know what they are talking about that say it's very problematic. Download the latest drivers from your soundcard manufacturer's website and try using those. But do a new thread too. There are lots of nice helpful people here who will help you get up and running. Good luck!

completely agreed with SF - when you have a soundcard which HAS it's own native ASIO drivers, never use ASIO4ALL on it!  always use the soundcards' native ASIO drivers.
 
also, most people looking to help troubleshoot problems are not going to look in a thread titled "Sonar X1 LE Upgrade" so a new thread is appropriate.
 
wait...I can do that for you!
 
Also, here is a tutorial on getting Kontakt outputs set correctly.  it was written for Kontakt 4, IIRC, but it doesn't matter, they both work the same for output settings.
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/2383017
 
2015/08/07 13:43:04
Skrzypiec
The point is neither of these cards I've been using has native drivers so I was forced to use Asio4All - but it has been working fine with with Reaper, FL Studio, Ableton Live and Sibelius (I had an intensive research period to find the best DAW for me) so the problem might not relate to ASIO4All at all. Of course I will inform you and give details about everything I know but it's a needle in the haystack to find so it might take me a while (and even longer considering I don't quite understand the topic).
 
Thanks for the tutorial link, I haven't seen that one yet.
 
most people looking to help troubleshoot problems are not going to look in a thread titled "Sonar X1 LE Upgrade"
At first I just mentioned the problem as a digression, hoping to solve it myself within 15 minutes. Didn't expect it to be that serious :D
2015/08/07 17:35:30
Skrzypiec
OK. I did a general cleaning of my PC:
- I removed trials of older DAWs to avoid any potential interference with their own supplied drivers (left only software I still have active projects in)
- I completely uninstalled IDT High Definition Audio Codec (driver for my integrated sound card I can't find the model of anywhere), to have just a single device available in Asio4ALL, to exclude any conflict (this seems to be the right thing because I got rid of the error: "The following audio output devices used by this project are not available", with my integrated sound card output shown in the Missing Devices list).
 
Current configuration:

HARDWARE:
- Dell Inspiron N5110 (Q15R)
- cpu i7-2670
- graphics: Intel HD Graphics Family (integrated) and GeForce 525M (additional)
- RAM 8GB (seems low but was never too low for me)
- LogiLink UA0053 Sound Card (a $5 Chinese USB stick but still better than the integrated one)

SYSTEM AND DRIVERS:
- Win7 HP Home SP1
- C-Media USB Headphone Set (this is how UA0053 is shown as).
- ASIO4All to emulate drivers for any of the two above

DAW AND RELATED:
- Sonar Artist (Demo)
- Reaper 4.78 x64 (Trial)
- Sibelius 7.5 (Full)
- Kontakt Player 5 (to be hosted by the three above)



After the equipment reduction I again tried to follow the tutorial suggested above. At the part: "you need to go to your first MIDI track and select its output to Kontakt", there is no such option. Just the "Master" and the "Asio4All USB Headphone Set" (I read this as "USB sound card driven by the ASIO4All emulator"). So still, I have:
- in Kontakt: some EWQL instruments loaded, channel 1 set to stereo 1 (1/2), channel 2 set to stereo 2 (3/4), channel 3 set to stereo 3 (5/6) .... and following the rule of "channel N to stereo N ( 2N-1 / 2N ), and sound comes out of speakers when I hit the virtual keyboard of Kontakt for each instrument
- in Sonar: signal of channel 1 properly popping up at track 1, signal of channel 2 popping up at track 2, signal of channel 3 popping up at track 3 ... signal N at track N.

So all seems to be routed as supposed. But when I hit the piano roll view keyboard, no sound comes out.
 
I opened my older X1 LE project, that one was routed a bit differently - all midi tracks pointing to three instrument host tracks - and it works fine. So maybe I should just follow this old known way... But I'm a bit confused because I've seen a much simplier way which should just work, as shown in the video tutorials like this one:
 
(edit: apparently the link gets rejected, I meant "Multi-out Kontakt Routing Pt. 1" by DAWGURU)
 
Unfortunately, all these tutorials, no matter if amateur or official, seem to assume certain things as obvious. This is like putting together a huge jigsaw without a reference image. The inability to save the project doesn't help either. I already had a crash and had to start over. Maybe you should consider a "save limit" for trial versions, e.g. every 1 hour or so :P
 
EDIT:
 
In the meantime I examined that old project imported from X1 LE. It begins with three tracks with the keyboard icon next to them. I assume this means "instrument host track" but I'm not sure, couldn't find a confirmation. These are:
- Track 1. Kontakt5 (first instance),
- Track 2. Kontakt5 (second instance)
- Track 3. Kontakt5 (third instance).
Inputs for these three are set to omni, outputs to master, everything else is unchanged.
Then a whole bunch of tracks follows, with the plug icon next to them and I assum0e this means "MIDI track". So these are MIDI sources for subsequent channels of subsequent Kontakt instances, like:
- Track 4. Input: None. Output: Kontakt 5 1. Channel 1.
- Track 5. Input: None. Output: Kontakt 5 1. Channel 2.
- Track 6. Input: None. Output: Kontakt 5 1. Channel 3.
This goes down to track 14, the last one for Kontakt 5 1. Then switches to second instrument:
- Track 15. Input: None. Output: Kontakt 5 2. Channel 1.
- Track 16. Input: None. Output: Kontakt 5 2. Channel 2.
- Track 17. Input: None. Output: Kontakt 5 2. Channel 3.
Thsi goes down to track 24, the last one for Kontakt 5 2. Third instance follows the same pattern:
- Track 25. Input: None. Output: Kontakt 5 3. Channel 1.
- Track 26. Input: None. Output: Kontakt 5 3. Channel 2.
- Track 27. Input: None. Output: Kontakt 5 3. Channel 3.
Until the last track for this instrument.
 
This seems clear to me. The point still remains why the recommended way doesn't work. If I really need to have the instrument host tracks, these new tutorials say nothing about it, and I just would like to know if using them is trying to complicate too much or not. Thanks for all help already given :)
2015/08/07 23:51:41
robert_e_bone
Hang in there :)
 
I can't really give you much advice on the ASIO4ALL pieces of your puzzle, because I got rid of it about 8-9 years ago (yikes), but I can suggest the midi and audio track routing assignments for an experimental track for you to try to get sound out (at least as far as the assignments for the tracks anyways):
 
Please try the following:
 
1. Start a brand new project, with the Normal template, and give it some Test 01 sort of name.
 
2. If the console view is open, just for the moment close it, by hitting the X in its lower left corner (I think that is where it should be for console view). This is just to free up space to work in the Track Pane.
 
3. OK, now in the blank space on the left side of the Track Pane, right-click, and Insert an Audio Track. then also right-click again, and Insert a Midi Track. (we will come back to these in a short bit)
 
4. OK, now, in the Browser Pane (right side of the screen), click on the button labeled Synth, then click on the '+' sign - to Insert a Synth. Go through the list of the VST2 synths, and select one of your Kontakt versions - doesn't matter which of them you pick for now. When the Insert Soft Synth Options dialog box opens, for purposes of this little test, remove any checks for any of the Create Tracks options (since we already created our own audio and midi track), and Check the boxes: Synth Property Page, Synth Rack View, and don't worry one way or the other about the ones at the bottom (Enable Midi Output, Recall Assignable Controls). I would also suggest you leave the box checked for Ask This Every Time, so that you can get these options to open for future iterations of adding soft synths. Anyways, after you click on OK, you should get the Kontakt synth property page to open up.
 
5. OK, so load up one instrument into Kontakt - let's use the Kontakt Factory Content>Band>Electric Piano>Mark I Classic.nki instrument. By default, Kontakt will load this instrument and set its audio outputs to outputs 1/2, and the midi channel to 1. So, these settings are fine. We still don't have things hooked up to our tracks, but we are about to fix that. Close the Kontakt property page.
 
6. OK, so, click on the number (1), on the left side of the audio track (should be track 1), to bring that track into focus. In the Inspector Pane, it is probably pre-selected for Pro-Channel (ProCH will be blue) at the top of the inspector pane. Click on that button labeled ProCh, to get rid of that display, and then you should see a channel strip for track 1 (your audio track) on the left, and then the Master Bus on the right.
 
7. So, at the bottom of the track 1 audio track's channel strip, click on the drop-down arrow for the Input selection, to set what audio this track will be fed from, and select the Kontakt stereo output for 1/2. (should be the 3rd one down in the list, once you expand the Kontakt list of inputs). This will tell Sonar to take any audio output from the Kontakt instance's main outputs and feed it to track 1's input. Leave the Output for track 1 to go to Master.
 
8. Now, we have to assign things for the midi track (track 2). Click on the number on the left side of track 2 (should be a 2), to bring the midi track into focus. (actually, in this case, it should default to set it up for you, since it is the only synth, so it should assign it already for you, but we will look)
 
9. OK, at the bottom of the midi track's channel strip in the inspector pane, you should see the Output already set to your Kontakt instance. This is what you want here. Later, as you add more synth instances, you will need to click on the drop-down arrow and select the correct synth instance for what you want that midi track assigned to, but for this test, leaving it to the default Kontakt instance is just what you want. Set the midi Input to: 'Input = All Inputs: Omni'.
 
So, after all of the above, which takes longer to type than to do, you should have a loaded instance of Kontakt, with an instrument, assigned to the Kontakt main outputs, and set to receive midi triggering data on midi channel 1, for an electric piano sound.
 
You should also have an audio track set to send any audio generated by the Kontakt main audio outputs, to the Master Bus, and you should have a midi track that is set to send any midi data it detects, to the Kontakt instance.
 
Now, since you had already brought the midi track (track 2) into focus, by clicking on the number 2 on the left side of that track, you should also see (by Sonar default) that one of the buttons is Blue on the midi track, and if you hover your mouse over it, it will say 'Input Echo = Auto Through' which is just what you want - Sonar will automatically set that track to monitor the output from that Kontakt instance, which you will hear through the audio track (because the audio track is set to pick up any audio output from that Kontakt instance).
 
Soooooooo, when you play notes on your keyboard midi controller, with Track 2 (the midi track) in focus - and the Input Echo lit Blue, the midi note events will get detected by the Kontakt instance, by the loaded instrument (electric piano), and then Kontakt will process those note events in that instrument, and it will send audio output back out through the Kontakt instance's main outputs.  That audio output from Kontakt is assigned to your audio track (track 1), as input to that audio track, and then the audio output from track 1 gets routed to the Master Output.
 
If all is done properly above, you should be hearing electric piano sounds when you play, and if you arm the midi track (track 2) for record, and hit the red record button on the transport control in Sonar, then play some midi notes on your keyboard midi controller, Sonar should record that midi data, and you should be able to hear it during playback.
 
It's a starting point, and there are other ways of doing things, as there usually are, but it SHOULD give you some sound, so if that does not happen after completing the above steps, then we need to look at your Sonar Driver Mode, and the audio drivers, and all of that stuff, which is also part of that puzzle to figure out.
 
I will try to help you, as will others.
 
At SOME point, regardless, I recommend you consider picking up a purpose built audio interface with proper ASIO drivers for Windows, but maybe we can get you up and running in the meantime. :)
 
Bob Bone
 
2015/08/07 23:58:01
mudgel
Bob, last time you did a tutorial I copied it and uploaded it to my Onedrive. Listed there as
Kontakt5 in Sonar.docx it will save you typing it out time and again.
2015/08/08 00:02:19
Doktor Avalanche
Dump ASIO4ALL.
 
Get one of these:
http://uk.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces
 
Never look back.
 
Thanks...
2015/08/08 02:43:41
robert_e_bone
Thanks, Mike - this one was more of a routing assignment in Sonar exercise.  I never even went close to multiple instruments in a single instance of Kontakt - could have used any synth for the audio/midi routing walk through.
 
It IS good to know, though, that you DO have some of that stuff saved off, because I DO recall going over a few different things in the past - several times.  Good thing I can type.....
 
Bob Bone
 
2015/08/08 08:51:46
Skrzypiec
It works! I followed the tutorial and got sound from Piano Roll, thank you. Some things differed, and I listed them all below just in case:

Insert an Audio Track. Insert a Midi Track.
I already had 1 audio and 1 midi track created by default so I just stuck to these without creating new ones.
 
Kontakt Factory
I don't have these. This version of Kontakt was supplied with the older EWQL stuff so I used their Alto Flute instead (but I guess this doesn't matter).

Kontakt will load this instrument and set its audio outputs to outputs 1/2, and the midi channel to 1.
Had the Channel set to Omni, so changed this to 1.

Click on that button labeled ProCh, to get rid of that display
I don't have the ProChannel window, the inspector was instantly visible so I skipped this part.

Leave the Output for track 1 to go to Master.
Since I uninstalled the onboard sound card, the "Master" is gone and only Asio4All v2 USB Headphone Set available. Had to use it instead.

you should have a loaded Kontakt with instrument assigned to the Kontakt main outputs, and set to receive midi triggering data on midi channel 1
At this point I noticed the MIDI track has channel set to None. Both leaving it at None and changing to 1 worked. What's the difference?
 
 
The thing works however we still don't know the reason. But since the problem is gone after getting rid of the onboard card I just suppose Asio4All tried to use both in the same time while it's only capable of using one. Does what I'm saying make any sense at all?

robert_e_boneI recommend you consider picking up a purpose built audio interface
Doktor AvalancheDump ASIO4ALL. Get one of these
Yes, I've been searching for some good interface but I wanted to choose a DAW first and a compatible interface later, it's easier in this order. I know Focusrite 8i6, you're another person in a row who recommends it. I see this device is very similar to Steinberg UR44, both are proposed alternatively to each other - so does it matter which one I pick? Or is Focusrite more compatible with SONAR?

robert_e_bonebut maybe we can get you up and running in the meantime
yep, that was the point - still, there are 2 or 3 more weeks before I can get any serious equipment and will be stuck with LogiLink + Asio4All, so I just don't want to waste this precious time. Thanks for all the help in order to achieve this :D
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