• SONAR
  • The Song Remains the Same - NOT. (p.2)
2015/08/03 09:44:33
Bristol_Jonesey
mudgel
A guitar player or piano player might be noodling around and come up with a riff.

That riff is what the song is built on.

No different with loops. Audition some and see if you get some inspiration. That loop could easy become the base of a song.

There's millions of guitar players but they don't all sound the same or play the same music. Don't let loops lock you into a box of some sorts. Besides the loops will be fillers and create the backing, the rhythm of a song. Just another tool to help you get to where you want to go.

For the first time ever, I was auditioning some loops a short while ago, found something I liked an immediately turned it into a song.
 
I basically took it apart and recreated the loop (pad, strings & bass) with Dim Pro & BFD, added my own fills & breaks & that was it.
 
The lyrics are written, just need to get them recorded and we're done.
2015/08/03 10:06:13
Resonant Serpent
I do my best to avoid audio loops that contain music, and haven't had to give in yet. If you find inspiration in them, then so be it, and follow your muse. Just because you use samples, that doesn't mean that you use loops. EW Orchestra is sampled, but you mold it to what you want. The NI libraries like Damage and Rise and Hit are samples, but you can manipulate them, or break them down to basic components to where it would be close to impossible for someone to come up with the same combination. There is absolutely nothing that stops anyone from working "the old way". Also, it's a myth that people wrote their own music back in the day. 
 
Bottom line: Whatever gets you from point A to Finished Song is the correct path. You only need to decide what kind of music you want to create. Just learning mixing and orchestration of sounds is a lifetime project. Use your time wisely.
2015/08/03 11:32:49
eph221
Just like in rock in the days of Dick Clark, the *success* of your creative efforts depends alot on the personality you project (i.e. non musical desiderata).   The real musicians haven't gone away and they still benefit from the same musical education that you grew up with.  I'd venture to say they get  more joy out of the creative process then those who let the externals justify their compositional efforts.  I really hope that liberal arts doesn't go away, I still think it produces the best all around artists.  When art is *ez* the results last as long as the efforts.
2015/08/03 11:35:07
eph221
a=e
 
2015/08/03 11:43:36
Boscoe
I think there's maybe a simplistic view of samples, loops and "beats" at play here. Sure, if you WANT, you can get pre-recorded loops and just stick 'em together like legos, and it'll sound like something that was stuck together like legos.
 
But for example, a "beat" is really just a midi file of a percussion groove with instrument sounds applied to it. (investigate Stylus RMX to see a popular tool for creating them) You can apply any samples you want to that groove and make it sound the way you want. You can edit the MIDI data to make that groove unique, to add human feel, change the style, whatever you want. And then there's the world of plugins that can alter your sounds... it's endless...
 
If you want your music to not sound like anyone else, it's VASTLY easier to achieve now with digital tools, samplers and synths than it ever was before. I wouldn't go by the examples of people making, say, Electronic Dance Music as the standard of "how music gets made these days", that's just how THEY (the specific people being interviewed) are doing it ...THIS WEEK. ;)
 
Here's what I'm doing: I play my own drums, guitar and keyboards, but they're all MIDI, so I'm really just recording my performance with all it's unique nuance and personality unattached to any specific instrument sound. Then I can apply any samples/sounds to those performances that I want. Tweak and adjust the performance data to perfection, alter the tempo, cut and paste, make loops out of them, whatever I can imagine.
 
The point is, you have more freedom and flexibility to define your OWN unique way of making music than has ever existed in human history, not less. MY problem is option anxiety! lol :)
2015/08/03 11:51:28
bitflipper
Loops - pffft. They're for poseurs. (OK, I admit to routinely playing along with a drum machine while jamming out song ideas. Does that make me a hypocrite?)
 
The good news, Gavin, is that you can make music any way you frickin' want to. Use the computer as a substitute for a tape machine if you like, and forget about soft synths and samplers and MIDI programming and loops.
 
Believe it or not, there are still lots of folks in the world who want to hear real people moving air with real drums and guitars and pianos and stuff.
 
Like these dinosaurs. You may recognize the guitarist.
2015/08/03 11:55:19
Makzimia
I am 100% with the use loops least as possible. If you want great sounding instruments, use midi. There are so many midi based packages today. Some just dedicated to drums like superior drummer and bfd to name a couple. Then there is native instruments with all their own. The outside third party compatible stuff that is beyond amazing, if you can use it, and more importantly afford it :). I have been playing guitar and keys since 1970 and 76 respectively, and I can noodle on drums. I use loops only when they can fit a fixed point basically, ie sound effect, a piece of say usable percussion. Beyond that, I still find the actual music, by playing.
 
Just me .02, for what it's worth.
 
Tony
2015/08/03 12:59:23
kennywtelejazz
I used to sit around scratching my head trying to figure out loops myself at one point . It seemed that whenever I used them,  the loops themselves would take me away from my inner musical compass of what I was looking to do in my own music . A lot of times I couldn't use them because of various reasons , a few of the reasons are they were in genres I wasn't into or they may have been using sounds or tonalities (parts locked in such as major or minor when I wanted a different harmonic tonality ) that I couldn't use for my music . In short , it felt like I was trying to collab w something or a group of virtual "some ones " that were playing  different musical parts than what I was looking to say musically in my music …
At that time in my evolution I was coming from a place musically along the lines of Jazz guitar / Blues guitar .
All along, I have had the ability to sit down and play note for note any guitarist that I have admired and respected just by looping a section of the performance I wanted to learn. Then by just listening and playing along in a very short time I was able to play in most cases on my guitar in real time at the recorded tempo the very thing I was looking to play on my guitar 20 years ago when that style of playing was Hip …..LOL
FWIW , I decided to embrace what 's out there now and see if what's happening now will work for me . 
I needed to get out of my own way to be able  grow in new areas and I wanted to keep a finger on the pulse of whats happening now in music .
Nowadays it seems to me that a lot of very creative and talented musicians derive their income and open musical doors by putting out loops and loop libraries  . 
I had to start looking at the big picture because the musical landscape has changed dramatically concerning the tools we now have and the way people make music in todays digital world .
I woke up one day and said to myself let me show these people the proper respect due and I asked myself what can I learn from this amazing collective resource I currently have at my disposal …
Every DAW I ever bought came with loops and "song construction kits " ( for lack of a better term ) 
I spend hours every day stealing everything I can from loops , by that I mean I devote a lot of my available free time to learning all the various parts of loops I happen to like , if the loop has piano I will sit there and learn the part on the keyboard , string parts horn parts what ever …to do that , I will dial up a soft synth , find a suitable patch and play along ….
I happen to get a lot of enjoyment out of doing that type of learning  and it has helped me become a better / growing musician ..
Since I'm somewhat of an Old School / throw back type of fella  , this sort of thing falls into the category of The Wood Shed ….while I'm doing this type of shedding I like to change the keys and dial up my own sounds…
Back to pre made loops  and how to use them ….I also like to use them as " Placeholders " copyright The Craig …..
Yeah, I've  had projects that had sections of the song where the only thing keeping it together were the Placeholders …..every so often The Muse may throw me a bone and I come up with a much better loop/part so I can hide the first loop and erase it's name off the songs birth certificate ..lol
I take the view point that I will use anything I can to keep me interested in doing music and get me away from staring at a blank screen ….
I like to see all them Pro Channel lights and meters blinking while I'm chomping to go …hehehe..
 
all the best , 
 
Kenny
 
2015/08/03 13:33:28
...wicked
Wow, Noel really shreds on that guitar!
2015/08/03 13:40:16
bapu
I use whatever I can to make music. Sometimes it's all live players. Sometimes I use midi clips for dums. Sometimes I use a midi song file (if it's a cover) to start and then strip away some parts to make room for real instruments. Sometimes I use Band In A Box to start and idea and sometimes to add to an already started project. Sometimes I use a library that has riffs for parts such as guitar or horns or strings.
 
I take no shame in doing so. And unless someone asks, I do not feel the need to divulge what I used.
 
Of the songs that I have been part of (in the Songs Forums) I have not played bass on two of them. Can you find those two?
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