I CBF learning another DAW so if cakewalk give me plugins that are locked to Sonar - That is fine.

Anderton
 Several SONAR users who bought X3 Producer or Platinum have said that the collection of included plug-ins was a major factor.

A big part of why I bought the X1 Production Suite (coming from another DAW and needing something modern and able to provide full production capabilities from getting drums and other instruments into the mix and having a decent effect suite for post) was indeed all the included stuff. I didn't know the DAW from an arse in the ground aside from the all the stereotypical comments about it's quirks (so the core DAW started with low marks in my mind from that outsider viewpoint).
 
But after looking at what was out there, being on a tight budget and knowing that I no longer had a full band room filled with gear and musicians the package Sonar provided at the time was the one that could allow me to create full tunes, how I wanted, without having to spend any extra cash of third party stuff (back then it was SD3 for drums and DPro/Rapture/all the other stuff for sounds and the plethora of effects for mixing).
 
That wasn't the whole reason (this forum was actually a big factor... you guys have a good reputation and that has proven true and then some). So I built an overspec'd system just to handle/avoid where Sonar (at the time) may or may not have been lacking.
 
So yeah... that is indeed something that could definitely encourage folks to buy into the Sonar paradigm and the program has obviously become much more stable in the past few years (AND the workflow has become amazing for artists hacking through shiz themselves like I am).
 
 
THAT however does not mean starting to lock plugins that previously weren't locked is a good idea. It has nothing to do with that allure and in fact would almost have a chilling effect on those types of sales (as in those purchasing the DAW because of the effect/instrument suite).
 
It doesn't matter what the other companies may or may not be doing in that regard. If the Baker's want extra sales based on the included goodies then they should, whenever possible, leave those plugs unlocked. That gives Sonar an extra edge when people are considering their options.
 
Maybe someone just really wants to try out some of the synths or effects and figure "Hey... if I can use all this stuff in my DAW of choice AND I get to check out Sonar... yeah, maybe I will drop the $500 on it".
 
Then they may realize how cool Sonar is as DAW and get hooked. Bingo bango. New long term customer.
 
That may not account for a huge amount of sales but who knows? It could help and then those kids tell their friends and it spreads like a virus. Doesn't really hurt Cake in anyway to allow their own plugs to work in other DAWs and really helps out those of us who are going to buy/use Sonar anyway if and when we need to jump over into another DAW for specific tasks (like if a client demands it but we want to use the tools we know and like as much as possible).
 
Of course you can't force the third party people to play along if they don't want to and really I find it surprising XLN went on board with handing out full versions of their product (you'd normally expect they'd provide a light version to encourage upgrades like Overloud does... but those XLN guys are a little weird in this regard).
 
Now that brings it right back to the original statement I made. Provide the month to monthers with locked versions and those who paid for full memberships unlocked versions (where possible).
 
Am I just being insane again? Does this not seem like a rational and effective marketing strategy?
 
You gotta one up the competition. Cake does this in so many ways and this could defintiely be one of them. If they do something like this shout it from the bleeding rooftops! Like I said I was extremely surpised to find out some of my stuff worked in Reaper. I found out by accident really.
 
Meh... on a break and rambling.
 
Cheers.

Beepster
THAT however does not mean starting to lock plugins that previously weren't locked is a good idea.

 
Susan G clarified that the Strum plug-in that previously wasn't locked remains unlocked. It's only the V2, which is considerably more sophisticated, that is locked to SONAR.

Anderton

Beepster
THAT however does not mean starting to lock plugins that previously weren't locked is a good idea.

 
Susan G clarified that the Strum plug-in that previously wasn't locked remains unlocked. It's only the V2, which is considerably more sophisticated, that is locked to SONAR.

No, dude. I get that. I don't care about that. That's third party stuff and Cake has to adhere to whatever gets worked out. I don't even use that plug anyway and as I said I think it's in the best interest of those third party companies to actually lock their included versions to Sonar and even make them lite versions to encourage upgrade sales (like I said I thought it was kind of weird XLN handed out full versions but I guess they have their own marketing plan).
 
All I'm saying is the plugs that Cakewalk themselves have control over and/or if they can convince providers to allow for unloacked versions... well that would of course be beneficial to us users but also be a great way to boost sales and ensnare new customers who may otherwise not buy into Sonar.
 
Seriously not trying to be argumentative (although I understand that perhaps you are used to folks wailing on you for whatever the frack weird crap people do that for). I'm just saying on the outside looking in it seems like a good strategy.
 
Not trying to one up anyone or impose my own will. Just making some observations that could be beneficial to all parties. Believe it or not I used to be a bit of a business dude. A very unorthodox one but I could move product. It's the little things that can make or break a sale... yanno?
 
I have no complaints as is. I'm just sayin is all. The more money the Bakers rake in the more money there is for improving the product... so THAT is my selfish interest if there is any. Extra flexibility from what I own already is of course a wicked bonus too.
 
I'm on your side, brother. I just want everything to be wicked and awesome and useful. Right?
 
;-)

I think its important to make it clear that most DAW developers lock the included plugins to their DAW. As a rule CW doesn't. It does lock those it is licensing from third party developers in many cases but not all.
 
Further, I don't believe a DAW developer thinks about another DAW being able to use their plugins except when they are selling them on their own. How many here have had to contact CW because one of the bundled plugins wouldn't work in another DAW. If so what was CW's response? We had this discussion about the PC plugins. Those as a type wont work in another DAW. I say so what!   

I think I am completely failing at making my point. It's about a competitive edge when there is zero (or very little) cost involved to creating that edge. It is also about exposing people to the brand and flagship product which, if more people were exposed to, would definitely see what we all see. It's a good product worth owning and staying current with.
 
Marketing 101. Get your foot in the door by any means necessary. Secure the existing customer base by making your product/service as useful as possible without cutting into your bottom line. If that means making your product semi compatible with competing products... who cares? Just as long as it keeps people coming back for more.
 
Meh... I'll drop it now. Didn't mean to start an argument. Gotta back to work (with Sonar BTW).
 
/convert

Thanks for the clarification, Susan. I knew version 2 came with Foxboro, but was unclear if you had meant version 1 myself.
 
@Beeps With 3rd party plugins, things are locked based on the licensing agreement. There is nothing CW can do about those. Based upon posts I have read, there are those that pop into the forums on occasion, just to see what they can get with minimum effort (or for free). The one about signing up for Splat for a month just to get AD2 took the cake though (pun intended). Folks will gravitate to a DAW because of the DAW, not because of the plugins. (I think that was your point, but not sure).

mettelus
Thanks for the clarification, Susan. I knew version 2 came with Foxboro, but was unclear if you had meant version 1 myself.
 
@Beeps With 3rd party plugins, things are locked based on the licensing agreement. There is nothing CW can do about those. Based upon posts I have read, there are those that pop into the forums on occasion, just to see what they can get with minimum effort (or for free). The one about signing up for Splat for a month just to get AD2 took the cake though (pun intended). Folks will gravitate to a DAW because of the DAW, not because of the plugins. (I think that was your point, but not sure).

Yes... I am not talking about the third party stuff (but if they want to provide that then sure). I am talking about in house stuff.
 
I should not have said anything because no one is actually reading my posts. What I have outlined eliminates the drive by scammers (locked plugs for month to month... unlocked for full membership but ONLY for the stuff Cake can control).
 
It's understandable I guess because we do get a lot of wankwads trying to pull a fast one but seriously... I am saying something VERy different here. Nothing to do with third party stuff (unless they are on board). Not giving stuff away to the "I'll pay for a month, get all this stuff and never come back" crowd.
 
I'm gonna try to not let it get to me that people think that me, Beepster, is suggesting that type of thing but really guys... read what I wrote.
 
If my posts keep being taken for something they are not I'm gonna have to delete them. C'mon, guys.

Beepster
I think I am completely failing at making my point. Meh... I'll drop it now. Didn't mean to start an argument. Gotta back to work (with Sonar BTW).

I think I understand what you're saying. There is a precedent, in that Reason's instruments can be used with other programs via ReWire. There are plenty of people who have bought Reason and never even touched the sequencing/recording aspect, they just use the instruments. Not sure what percentage this represents of Reason's sales, but even if it's 5-10% that's a nice little boost to the bottom line.
 
I always wondered why Cakewalk didn't just lock plug-ins like the VX-64 and PX-64 to SONAR, and offer a line of VST plug-ins for sale to non-SONAR users. I suspect they don't want to have to deal with the support issues ("Hi, my VX-64 is acting strange with Samplitude 2.6 running on Windows XP, please fix this Cakewalk").

Anderton

Beepster
I think I am completely failing at making my point. Meh... I'll drop it now. Didn't mean to start an argument. Gotta back to work (with Sonar BTW).

I think I understand what you're saying. There is a precedent, in that Reason's instruments can be used with other programs via ReWire. There are plenty of people who have bought Reason and never even touched the sequencing/recording aspect, they just use the instruments. Not sure what percentage this represents of Reason's sales, but even if it's 5-10% that's a nice little boost to the bottom line.
 
I always wondered why Cakewalk didn't just lock plug-ins like the VX-64 and PX-64 to SONAR, and offer a line of VST plug-ins for sale to non-SONAR users. I suspect they don't want to have to deal with the support issues ("Hi, my VX-64 is acting strange with Samplitude 2.6 running on Windows XP, please fix this Cakewalk").

Yeah, you're getting it. And forget Rewire. Just straight up VSTs are easily scannable on any DAW worth its salt. Not even sure how the lock mechanisms work anyway but just let it fly free... for the stuff that Cake controls and ONLY for full members (to avoid fly by's who just want to take advantage of the monthly rate yet get all the perks).
 
So... stuff like Addictive Drums, Strum, Lounge Lizard, TH2, etc... that stuff would be out/locked no matter what unless they agreed to make their wares fully accessible compatible (like XLN have done which I still think is a little weird but whatever... nice perk).
 
Stuff like, and we'll start with stuff I KNOW Cake owns... the Cake Amp Sim, SD3, Beatscape, Rapture, Dim Pro, and so on... Pay for the full membership then you can use those plugs wherever you want. Pay month to month? You're out of luck UNTIL you pay for a full 12 months (then you get a new reg code or whatever and can unlock it and get the fully compatible version).
 
Not sure if Cake actually owns the Sonitus stuff or various other of the older school plugs but whatever they own gets included in this scheme. Anything they don't own outright they can approach the people that DO own it and see what they think would be fair to make it openly compatible (if at all). This could be through their existing marketing/compensation deals or whatever.
 
Then while marketing Sonar whatever IS fully compatible on other platforms gets published as a list so people can see what exactly they get with various versions of Sonar that they can use in their own hosts.
 
Might push them over the edge AND since they now have a modern copy of Sonar they may abandon their old DAW or at least keep their subscription current because they see what it can offer.
 
So yeah... that's what I'm sayin'.
 
I have no compalints and don't REALLY care because I already own all the stuff that is cross compatible so no biggie. Just thinkin' up stuff that could maybe benefit everyone.
 
Cheers and thanks for taking the time to understand what I was saying.
 
Sorry if that was unclear.