Hello folks, I'm having an issue involving Sonar with certain video file types. I compose for film and tv and receive various types of video files to work with. The most popular format these days sent around to composers in post production is MP4 or H.264. > Good quality and smaller file size. 
 
The issue is that my final cues that are in sync with the video inside of sonar, shift after they are exported. (by about 2.5 frames)
Even a broadcast wave file. This doesn't seem to happen when using WMV or AVI files (but nobody really uses those file types in tv post prod. and converting them is not an option for my work flow)
 
So, if I export a music cue from sonar and check it against picture in another program like Sony Vegas for instance, the cue is off by 2.5 frames. 
 
I still use Sonar X1d currently but I read that the newer versions (after X3e) now have better video support and don't use the direct show engine etc. I started a demo of Sonar platinum last night but the same issue persists! (I was able to test this by bouncing a clip internally and grabbing it from the audio folder to test it, as the demo won't allow any exporting) > The file was slightly less out-of-sync but still off by almost 2 frames.
 
The only reason I can think of at this point, is whatever codec is running when I'm working with MP4s. I think I'm using LAV video encoders. I'm wondering if that could be the issue? Although, if I did the same test using only Sony vegas I wouldn't get the issue, which still points to Sonar... 
 
Anyone have any thoughts on this? Codec? Sonar? 
 
Thanks!
JG
 
 

Codec.
 
Try the kLite video codec pack.

Thanks! I think I had kLite at one time, always tricky to find the right codec pack. I think I have the shark 007 codec pack currently. I'll look more into it. But, to you it sounds like a codec issue? I think sonar's sync is sample accurate across the board, I feel like this issue is related to how the video file gets imported and how the visual time code relates to the project.
 
Thanks for the reply.
JG

I always had codec issues (many moons ago) but dont with KLite and Sonar (I'm a sound designer)...
 
Now I dont have any synchronisation issues whatsoever.....
 
SOMETIMES during a project the Hard Embedded TC will be half a frame to a frame out from Sonars but its not a reality as everything is in sync on the export.

How do you mean "shift" after exporting?  Does it start in sync and by the end be off by 2.5 frames?
 
One trick to try.  i send my music to the client or mixer(who is using Protools 99% of the time) in an OMF file.   So I...
1)  "save as"  a new file
2) "Bounce to Tracks" a stereo mix,  then 5-6 stems. Depending on what the mixer asks for.
3)  Delete all the midi and raw audio tracks...everything but the mix and stems.
4)  Remove silence (I create my own setting for this with a -89db threshold so i do not miss any soft intros or exits.
5)  Export the OMF.
 
If i have properly put in the SYMPTE offset and have the correct frame rate in >Preferences>Clock, the OMF drops into perfect place.  I get nothing but compliments on how all my cues or OMF files sync up.    

You might be working in Sonar with the wrong frame rate selected.  By "wrong" I mean the frame rate of your picture and Sonar's frame rate are not matched.
 

Thanks for the replies!
I'm sure it's not a frame rate issue or any user related thing. I'm suspecting the codec or even possibly Sony Vegas which is what I'm using to test the problem. The video FR is at 23.97 and others tested were at 29.97 ND. I have an offset in sonar's clock settings and have it set to export any waves with the offset. 
 
Another strange thing is that when I insert the video into Sonar, the first frame of video which displays a visual time code of let's say: 00:59:58:00, will show up in Sonar as 00:59:58:01. And that 1 frame isn't consistent with the 2.5 frames that it's off by.
 
 
Anyhow, I've sent some test files to a colleague to test for me, if everything is fine then it has something to do with Sony Vegas. I'll report back with the result.
Thanks again!
JG
   

Test came back with same result. 2.5 frames late.
I changed to the kLite codec pack and the issue still there but now is 1.5 frames out. Something to do with the codec in my machine I guess but not sure what to change. There are a lot of variables in the codec settings. 
 
If I do a test using only Sony Vegas, the files export and import back in properly. I assume Vegas would be using the same codec for mp4s as Sonar would? 
 
The really strange thing is, in all cases, the visual time code on the video matches the codes inside of Sonar and Vegas. 
 

How are you doing your test?   What is 2.5 frames late? How do you determine that?
 
 

 
1. I bring an MP4 into sonar
2. export out some of the MP4's audio either as a broadcast wave or as a basic riff wave (jotting down the start time code)
3. open the same MP4 video in Sony Vegas
4. bring in the audio exported from sonar into the vegas file at the correct time code or import the broadcast wave
5. Sonar's exported audio is 2.5 frames later then the audio attached to the MP4 (which is the same audio I exported out of sonar) 
 
Reverse test: 
1. open MP4 in Vegas
2. Export a bit of the audio, jot down the time code start
3. Import the same MP4 into Sonar
4. Import the Vegas exported audio into Sonar
(Audio comes into sonar early by 2.5 frames)
 
*Bringing the exported audio back into the SAME program has no sync problem.
 
Basic conclusion so far is that the mp4 in sonar is playing 2.5 late.
I should also mention that I've done these tests using audio from different times in the 30 minute video and the amount it is off by is consistent, so it's not a drifting issue.
 
The audio in an MP4 is AAC, wonder if that has anything to do with it..
JG