• SONAR
  • Not Just Microsoft, Now Propellerheads Doing the SONAR Thang... (p.2)
2015/07/12 00:38:27
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Anderton
They also showed that the audio optimizations in Windows 10 were cutting latency about in half compared to Windows 7, and that's without drivers optimized for the other tech changes.

 
It is very cool that they are putting focus on audio. This specific point has more to do with the Windows audio stack (that uses Microsoft's audio engine). There is more relevant info in this powerpoint.
i.e. Desktop apps that use WASAPI shared mode and exclusive mode will benefit from it as well as Universal apps. My understanding is apps that use WDM kernel streaming /ASIO won't directly benefit since they bypass the windows audio engine completely. Its still useful a welcomed improvement, however and we'll look into enhancing our WASAPI support at some point.
 
We should all be happy and commend MS's for their renewed involvement in our space as demonstrated by their communications with the industry and presence at shows like this. We saw some bleak years in the Vista age but things are looking up :)
2015/07/12 00:42:50
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
mudgel
With respect to Win 10 audio improvements, what we currently call WDM or ASIO drivers will have to be completely rewritten to take advantage of the new lower latency. Perhaps it will bring about a newer driver model to take advantage of the Win 10 features.



Nope the enhancements wont impact low latency that kernel streaming or ASIO drivers already do. The only changes I saw for drivers are to advertise low latency to the higher level windows stack. These are enhancements that impact the Windows audio engine.
It is possible that there are kernel improvements in Windows 10 that may be beneficial to audio streaming in general, although I haven't read of anything advertised in this area.
2015/07/12 01:32:52
Anderton
I'm pretty sure he did mention WDM improvements that accured just from the general system optimizations and existing drivers (which I presume would also affect ASIO), but the presenter was trying to cram in a lot of information and maybe I misunderstood. The emphasis was on WASAPI, but he was also mentioned some forward-looking improvements that were expected to be rolled out, which was how the rolling updates angle got brought up.
 
Someone asked about interface aggregation, and he said it was planned. I asked a question and said I was confused, because I always thought you could aggregate with WDM because SONAR did it. He corrected me and said that Cakewalk was the only company that got it right 
2015/07/12 08:07:47
Doktor Avalanche
Anderton
I'm pretty sure he did mention WDM improvements that accured just from the general system optimizations and existing drivers (which I presume would also affect ASIO), but the presenter was trying to cram in a lot of information and maybe I misunderstood. The emphasis was on WASAPI, but he was also mentioned some forward-looking improvements that were expected to be rolled out, which was how the rolling updates angle got brought up.
 
Someone asked about interface aggregation, and he said it was planned. I asked a question and said I was confused, because I always thought you could aggregate with WDM because SONAR did it. He corrected me and said that Cakewalk was the only company that got it right 





I'd still say it looks like ASIO stays where it is (see #3) as it allows a lot of the MS stack to be bypassed, seems extremely unlikely WDM will ever surpass ASIO except where an ASIO driver has been badly written.
 
MIDI and general OS performance improvements seem the most interesting right now to me.
2015/07/12 09:38:43
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Anderton
I'm pretty sure he did mention WDM improvements that accured just from the general system optimizations and existing drivers (which I presume would also affect ASIO), but the presenter was trying to cram in a lot of information and maybe I misunderstood. The emphasis was on WASAPI, but he was also mentioned some forward-looking improvements that were expected to be rolled out, which was how the rolling updates angle got brought up.
 
Someone asked about interface aggregation, and he said it was planned. I asked a question and said I was confused, because I always thought you could aggregate with WDM because SONAR did it. He corrected me and said that Cakewalk was the only company that got it right 



The only improvement I saw in the WINHEC presentation was the ability to signal low latency support from WDM up to WASAPI. If there are actual performance improvements they would have to be at a lower level in the WDM stack since kernel streaming/ASIO drivers themselves are quite low level. Inbox USB2 audio support is cool however since it allows hardware vendors to release drivers without custom support.
We had some talks with MS about aggregation quite awhile ago so they are aware of it and they also know that the Mac supports it so its definitely on their radar. I wouldn't hold your breath though - I'm sure it will take some doing before that happens.
2015/07/12 09:54:03
Doktor Avalanche
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
I wouldn't hold your breath though - I'm sure it will take some doing before that happens.




Of course if you release Sonar on tablet it will happen tomorrow .  That seems to be the M$ focus I assume.
2015/07/12 18:02:10
Anderton
Here's why I thought the improvements had something to do with WDM. This slide was part of Microsoft's presentation on OS 10 and audio.
 

2015/07/12 20:41:30
Doktor Avalanche
Yup all WDM :).
2015/07/13 04:03:48
RD9
Anderton
 They are planning on approximately quarterly point releases, and incrementing the version number every year or two (which would at that point trigger an update cost).




Craig,
There was one very important nugget I noticed in your original post (among all the other useful nuggets).  The choice of a "quarterly release cycle" appeals to me as a user.  The excitement of the monthly update is starting to lose its shine.  Of course I can always wait a couple of months to update but, as I understand it, this will not save any time since all of the previous month's updates will be installed to allow roll-back if needed. (Please feel free to correct me if I have misunderstood how updates work but try to be gentle, we artists are a sensitive breed )
 
Of course, a monthly update would appeal to some and it probably helps with the marketing. 
 
Thanks for keeping us updated on Window 10, I reside on a desert island in the south seas (Australia) and am therefore well away from all the IT action.
 
Cheers,
R
2015/07/13 07:20:48
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
RD9
The choice of a "quarterly release cycle" appeals to me as a user.  The excitement of the monthly update is starting to lose its shine.  Of course I can always wait a couple of months to update but, as I understand it, this will not save any time since all of the previous month's updates will be installed to allow roll-back if needed. (Please feel free to correct me if I have misunderstood how updates work but try to be gentle, we artists are a sensitive breed 


 
Every update is cumulative as far as the program goes. So there is nothing stopping you from following your own release cycle may it be one month quarterly or even annually. You will get access to exactly the same data from Command Center as long as you have paid for 12 months worth of updates. You could download just the program every 3 months and it would take you just a few minutes, or you could choose to additionally download any of the monthly content updates. The choice is yours to make - there is no compulsion to download updates for the program to keep working.
 
© 2026 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1

Use My Existing Forum Account

Use My Social Media Account