2017/07/10 03:03:36
sharke
I love Waves Element 2. I loved the first one and was stoked to get a free update to Element 2 recently. I think this is one of the best sounding analog modeled synths out there. Try an all-synth project with nothing but Waves Element and you can get some real ear candy going. 
 
However it really does choke on my machine (which is quite powerful), even if I just have a couple of instances, usually when I turn on unison (either 2 or 4 voices). I start getting crazy clicks and pops. Which is odd, because I look at my CPU activity meters in Sonar and they're still fluttering away around the 20-30% area. Nothing is spiking or even getting past 50%. So why is Element having so much trouble? It's not just the sound either - the interface gets kind of laggy, and unlike every other synth I have which features totally smooth controls, Element's knobs are sometimes very jerky and laggy (mind you, I find a lot of Waves UI's to behave like this in Sonar). 
 
So what's the deal then - how come I can run sometimes a dozen or more synths without a hitch (often CPU hungry beasts like Reaktor) but this little old Waves Element thing is choking and spluttering? Anyone else find this? 
2017/07/10 03:16:07
scook
sharke
I look at my CPU activity meters in Sonar and they're still fluttering away around the 20-30% area. Nothing is spiking or even getting past 50%. So why is Element having so much trouble?

Which CPU meter mode are you looking at in the Performance Module?
2017/07/10 03:19:03
sharke
scook
sharke
I look at my CPU activity meters in Sonar and they're still fluttering away around the 20-30% area. Nothing is spiking or even getting past 50%. So why is Element having so much trouble?

Which CPU meter mode are you looking at in the Performance Module?




I always have it set to audio processing. But typically I will close all other apps down when I'm using Sonar, so there is negligible CPU activity elsewhere in the system. 
2017/07/10 10:39:07
Grem
James I have Element 2 also. I will start a new project later today and see what I get.
2017/07/10 13:04:05
msorrels
After reading this I decided to give Element 2 a quick try (I've had it for a while but don't use it very often).  I loaded it up, found a preset with Unison on, Leads E2->FM Leader (MW), dropped in a Melodyne created MIDI file that is pretty much play a ton of notes (OK not exactly "real music" but always good for testing).  Started playback.  Bang, SONAR's audio engine stops unexpectedly, after maybe a bar or two.  The CPU never got much above 6-10%.  Sure enough every time I tried playing the audio engine would stop.  But not a CPU problem.
 
So I open Reaper and load the same preset and same MIDI clip.  Reaper plays it just fine.  CPU never gets above 6%.
 
SONAR's audio engine will stop like that if it gets bad audio data, seems likely that Element is generating something SONAR doesn't like and causes SONAR to throw a fit.  I suspect Reaper just handles it better.
 
Either Waves or Cakewalk need to look at and fix this.  I also suspect both sides will point at the other and say "It's not us, it's them".  It is not a CPU overload and I doubt there is anything you can do.
2017/07/10 13:08:40
sharke
msorrels
After reading this I decided to give Element 2 a quick try (I've had it for a while but don't use it very often).  I loaded it up, found a preset with Unison on, Leads E2->FM Leader (MW), dropped in a Melodyne created MIDI file that is pretty much play a ton of notes (OK not exactly "real music" but always good for testing).  Started playback.  Bang, SONAR's audio engine stops unexpectedly, after maybe a bar or two.  The CPU never got much above 6-10%.  Sure enough every time I tried playing the audio engine would stop.  But not a CPU problem.
 
So I open Reaper and load the same preset and same MIDI clip.  Reaper plays it just fine.  CPU never gets above 6%.
 
SONAR's audio engine will stop like that if it gets bad audio data, seems likely that Element is generating something SONAR doesn't like and causes SONAR to throw a fit.  I suspect Reaper just handles it better.
 
Either Waves or Cakewalk need to look at and fix this.  I also suspect both sides will point at the other and say "It's not us, it's them".  It is not a CPU overload and I doubt there is anything you can do.


Hmm that's bad news if so. I did actually suspect it may be a Sonar related thing because Waves has not played nice with Sonar in the past. At one point some of their GUI'S were unusable in Sonar - the controls were very jerky and in the case of the Supertap delay, you couldn't even set some of the sliders because they would spring back. I reported that years ago and Waves acknowledged it was a problem with their plugins and Sonar, and so I contacted Cakewalk and between the two of them they seemed to figure it out. Seeing the nastiness of the controls in Element makes me suspect that something might not be right in Sonar again.
2017/07/10 13:28:05
msorrels
Well I'm not sure it is bad audio coming out of Element.  I put Element into an instance of Minihost Modular and fed it the MIDI stream but hooked the audio output to nothing and it still causes the SONAR audio engine to stop unexpectedly.  Still not seeing a CPU spike though.  Someone from Cakewalk would have to look at it to tell why the audio engine stopped.  I suspect starting with them would be the best choice.
 
2017/07/10 13:34:01
msorrels
Waves has always had issues with UI in SONAR.  And their newer OpenGL based UI seem even worse.  But they also have had a bunch of issues with video card drivers and mouse drivers.  I don't think they test much on Windows at all.  In this case I suspect the GUI issues and the audio engine issues may be two separate issues.
 
2017/07/10 14:57:33
sharke
I think I will contact both Cakewalk and Waves. Maybe they can work together to improve things. It would be in both their interests given that Sonar is a major DAW and Waves is one of the leading plugin developers. 

I'm now noticing more issues with Waves. I have a project with the SSL E-Channel used on all tracks and Sonar seems to be turning off the "analog" switch on them. I'm continually having to turn it back on. 
2017/07/10 15:01:43
sharke
Damn, you know what? It's not just the analog switch which is being reset. Sonar appears to be resetting ALL of the controls on my E-Channels. 
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