If Sonar aren't fully tapping into anything, it's the explosion of EDM/bedroom producers. Look at the average age of people on the Sonar forums, it can't have escaped your attention that there is a predominance of over-40's (myself included) and a noticeable lack of EDM whippersnappers. You only have to look through the songs forum to get a general idea of Sonar's age and genre demographic. Not that there's anything wrong with this demographic, but I really feel like they're not doing everything they could to tap into the coming-of-age electronic crowd. Those kids are flocking to Abelton and Reason in droves. That may be to your liking, but I believe Cakewalk is going to have to do more to appeal to this crowd to stay afloat long term.



(quote thing got messed up) I am referencing Sharke.
 
I understand what your saying, i am one of the few young ones iv seen on here. Im 24 and i have used Sonar since i was roughly 16. my FATHER had introduced me haha. Proving your point. However i see it as somewhat of an advantage in a way. Sonar doesn't seem to cater much to hip-hop/edm as much as it does other genres as you described. This also gives young engineers such as myself an opportunity. I enjoy making hip-hop instrumentals with Rock style sounds and especially the drums. People actually really love it and it kind of gives me my own unique "sound". Also the artist i deal with love it. Im by no means saying im the first to do this. Im infact rather late to it, but i dont hear it as much.

Sonar does have some presence in Maschine forums so maybe we're not all geriatrics yo...
 
Peace Bros yo!

Bristol_Jonesey

Spencer
sigh. this forum's reputation on other forums is entirely deserved, I'll leave it at that.

I take it that's a compliment?

How could it be otherwise? As has been pointed out to me numerous times by long term members, this forum is a treasure that no one else on the planet has, and stands alone in its excellence. And I will never again dare to say otherwise.
No lack of self esteem here.
 
Oh.... and concerning profits.........All I know is that I'm not making any money off of this.....

Woodyoflop

If Sonar aren't fully tapping into anything, it's the explosion of EDM/bedroom producers. Look at the average age of people on the Sonar forums, it can't have escaped your attention that there is a predominance of over-40's (myself included) and a noticeable lack of EDM whippersnappers. You only have to look through the songs forum to get a general idea of Sonar's age and genre demographic. Not that there's anything wrong with this demographic, but I really feel like they're not doing everything they could to tap into the coming-of-age electronic crowd. Those kids are flocking to Abelton and Reason in droves. That may be to your liking, but I believe Cakewalk is going to have to do more to appeal to this crowd to stay afloat long term.



(quote thing got messed up) I am referencing Sharke.
 
I understand what your saying, i am one of the few young ones iv seen on here. Im 24 and i have used Sonar since i was roughly 16. my FATHER had introduced me haha. Proving your point. However i see it as somewhat of an advantage in a way. Sonar doesn't seem to cater much to hip-hop/edm as much as it does other genres as you described. This also gives young engineers such as myself an opportunity. I enjoy making hip-hop instrumentals with Rock style sounds and especially the drums. People actually really love it and it kind of gives me my own unique "sound". Also the artist i deal with love it. Im by no means saying im the first to do this. Im infact rather late to it, but i dont hear it as much.




We are actually actively engaging in the EDM community. We have one artist, Ilan Bluestone, who has done pretty well for himself and uses SONAR. And we've gotten a bunch of leads on new artists with the same profile. Here's the video we put out on Ilan:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaS5dyo60KI

dantarbill
I followed the link from Cakewalk's recent e-mail for "How to use SONAR's Mix Recall"...
 
I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised...since the link is to a non-Cakewalk hosted site...but still...Cake provided the link...and the page also presented, not just one, but three ads inviting me to Cubase.
 
(You just can't get good help anymore...)
 
 

Yeah it happens. They paid to advertise and their ads show up. We advertise on sites as well that have reviews for competing DAWs. Nothing we can do about it but thought it was worthy of sharing the article.

Hey, it's the internet! God only knows what might show up on the screen when you click that mouse.

Spencer
sigh. this forum's reputation on other forums is entirely deserved, I'll leave it at that.

if that is your opinium, you will have to keep believing that. The majority of people here, will  probably disagree with you. Maybe you will be happier "on the other side of the fence"...

But gearsluts is soooooo much better .

Anderton
The Cakewalk and Steinberg guys have been known to hang out together...that's how things like VST3 tweaks happen.
 
People from other industries are always surprised at the degree of camaraderie among music industry companies. That's probably because no one makes any money from it, so you might as well go out and have a beer together 

Or, desperate times call for desperate measures.

Spencer
That's not true. Ableton are making serious bank. Imageline, despite their free FLstudio upgrades, are also well off and make tons of r&d. Of course, we're talking about companies that are aware of what the current market wants. There's been some steps taken in the right direction lately for CW, but so much more needs to be done.

I guess I didn't put enough smilies after "That's probably because no one makes any money from it, so you might as well go out and have a beer together "
 
But if you want some stats, I think the only DAW company in this industry with more than $20MM yearly sales is the Pro Tools division of Avid. The only figure I have for Ableton was from a German publication in 2012, which listed sales as 14.7MM Euros. So let's assume $18MM. The same source says the company has somewhere around 200 employees. There's also taxes, the cost of doing business, R&D, web site and servers, documentation, licensing fees (I presume - they use algorithms from zPlane and the amp sims are from Softube), BOM for hardware items like Push, marketing and promotion, etc. Add that up, subtract it from $18MM, then tell me what the average employee makes.
 
I don't have current figures for Steinberg but FYI, from Sound on Sound when Steinberg was purchased by Pinnacle, "From a financial perspective, the price Pinnacle paid for Steinberg, $24 million ($8.2 million in cash and $15.8 million of Pinnacle System common stock), indicates how small the music-software industry really is, especially considering that Steinberg is one of the biggest players."
 
By contrast, a single Whole Foods store averaged about $34.6MM in 2014. Just sayin.' That's about 10% more than what the mighty, and cash-flush, Apple was said to have paid for Emagic (although I don't know if that was all cash, or a mixture of other equity - hopefully they took Apple stock, LOL).
 
Company #1,000 on the Fortune 1000 for 2014 made $1,570MM. Don't expect to see a music software company in there any time soon.
 
The people I know who work at music software companies do so because they love what they do and the find the job fulfilling. They are often musicians themselves, and enjoy the challenge of creating cool stuff with relatively little resources. It's a shame so many people "on the outside" have so little appreciation of that.