dubdisciple
[If I sat three complete novices down with Sonar, Ablteton and FL Studio and told them to recreate a modern hip-hop.EDM/Pop song like , I strongly suspect the one on the latter two options would finish first.

Yup but the Sonar one would be the hit record...
Of course..

Doktor Avalanche

dubdisciple
[If I sat three complete novices down with Sonar, Ablteton and FL Studio and told them to recreate a modern hip-hop.EDM/Pop song like , I strongly suspect the one on the latter two options would finish first.

Yup but the Sonar one would be the hit record...
Of course..

Unfortunately, that doesn't ring true either.  Not that one should measure DAW's by hit records, but in the hip-hop/EDM/pop world it's not even close.  To me that is actually not a bad thing.

FL is more involved with midi. It's piano roll is superior to most DAWs.
Sonar is quite easy working with loops. You can slice them. combine them, all sorts of things. If someone made a video on Sonar working with loops you would get that noise from the anti loop snob and also the Sonar is more concerned with EDM.
 
 The annoyance with programs like Live and sometimes Reason is the small real estate for editing.  This is where Sonar is better with less zooming. 

kitekrazy1
FL is more involved with midi. It's piano roll is superior to most DAWs.
Sonar is quite easy working with loops. You can slice them. combine them, all sorts of things. If someone made a video on Sonar working with loops you would get that noise from the anti loop snob and also the Sonar is more concerned with EDM.
 
 What you miss with programs like Live and sometimes Reason is the small real estate for editing.  This is where Sonar is better with less zooming. 

i agree that the real estate is better.  it's more of the "how' than the look that seems to frustrate people oi nthese genres when using Sonar.  The step sequencer in Sonar is not bad per say, but it just doesn't offer that simple, grab a sample and treat it like an MPC feel. Thanks to Craig, loops are not as bad as I thought in Sonar and there are some hidden powerful loop features.  Unfortunately it's still easier in other programs.

Since we are getting a bit of the original topic, the people "flocking" to EDM-oriented DAWs may just love the music and tools like Ableton.  One might argue, however, that it is easier for a young person with little recording experience to pull some loops together than to write and arrange a sequential, linear song.  And if people enjoy the result, that's fine.  This is not to say that loop-based music or EDM has any less value—I like it—and good art always takes talent to produce.  I am just speculating on what type of tool might attract a young, first-time hobbyist.
 
So, statistics are interesting but so is the interpretation.

I think one of Sonar's downfalls when it comes to working in the EDM/sequencer mindset is that it can be an absolute nightmare to move blocks of music around. Inserting time, deleting time, swapping section A with section B etc....these are all actions which have caused me immense frustration and hair pulling within Sonar, and from reading this forum over the last 3 or so years I've noticed that I'm not the only one. It's an area in which you're liable to encounter unexpected behavior, needless complications, bugs and sometimes outright crashes. I don't know whether that's because my projects are full of synths, MIDI and automation, but nonetheless it's something which should be completely intuitive and problem free in a DAW. Now if you're the kind of person who treats Sonar like a glorified multi-track recorder, getting an arrangement mapped out in its entirety in the outside world before laying the audio down onto tracks, then you're not likely to encounter these problems. But if like me you're the kind of person who lays a short musical idea down in the DAW and then develops it outwards in all directions like some kind of musical Big Bang, then I'm pretty sure you will have experienced these difficulties. Just something as simple as lassoing a large section of music and shifting it over a few bars can lead to all kinds of weirdness and I cringe every time I'm about to do it. 
 
Like it or not, a lot of modern musical styles are based around clearly defined blocks or patterns, and the ability to throw these blocks around seamlessly is essential to the creative process of electronic music. 

Do you use Clip Groups? I use split, make sure automation moves with clips, and Group. It's something I got into the habit with when using Vegas, and was thrilled when SONAR added that feature. The only caution is that it really, really helps if the groups start/end on beat or measure boundaries.
 
The biggest issue is if you have MIDI notes that extend a little bit before or after the beat, and a split doesn't catch them. But as most EDM is quantized during the creation process, that's not much of an issue. I add the "feel" stuff when mixing.
 
I also use this with rock music, but differently. I like adding little "pauses" between sections, so I split, insert, and add...sort of "DJ thinking" applied to rock/pop.

Strangely, a billion years ago when I first bought Cakewalk for Windows 3.1, I was afraid I wouldn't be comfortable with a linear program.  Why?  Because I was used to using drum machines and simple sequences that had patterns repeated and chained together into songs.  Although I have never been a loopy guy, that was just how I learned to work.  Now I am completely on the other side of the fence.
 
Funny, though, I somehow managed to write and record songs no matter what.

konradh
Since we are getting a bit of the original topic, the people "flocking" to EDM-oriented DAWs may just love the music and tools like Ableton.  One might argue, however, that it is easier for a young person with little recording experience to pull some loops together than to write and arrange a sequential, linear song.  And if people enjoy the result, that's fine.  This is not to say that loop-based music or EDM has any less value—I like it—and good art always takes talent to produce.  I am just speculating on what type of tool might attract a young, first-time hobbyist.
 
So, statistics are interesting but so is the interpretation.

I can see why you would come to that conclusion, but i don't think it's an age thing. Although the listeners of EDM tend to be young, many of the producers are a lot older than you think. Name me a dance music big name of the 90's and odds are he is still cranking out music. i find the same thing among hip-hop producers too.  Old school guys who grew up using sp1200's and later MPC's seem to find the immediacy of tools like FL an easier transition.  Mind you, these same guys end up mixing in pro tools anyway, so it is not the complexity of Sonar. Most of the guys i expose to Sonar love the mixing aspects of things.  it's when they sit down to "make a beat".  needless to say, most of the issues go away with third party plug-ins. Maschine has overtaken MPC's as the hardware solution of choice for hip-hop makers and can be used on any DAW.

Lot of opinions being thrown out - and you know it is said: Opinions are just like Belly Buttons everybody has one