I agree with the demographic Sonar really caters for 40 + crowd and that is one reason why we are not on the cutting edge and the powers that be move slow to make it so. 
 
All the young people move with Ableton...FL Studios they seem to be the DAWs that real musicians flock to. Not saying they are not real musicians here. The think with old people is that they are usually set in their ways and new ideas are not embraced. That is probably what makes it hard for Sonar to be truly innovative they maybe scared to lose their customer base. But you can always have new customers who become your customer base and then you may start getting in there with the top three four DAWs that are out there now.
 
Sonar is good for the hobbyist obviously they maybe one or two who are professionals and can afford the really really good plug ins that we mere mortals will never be exposed to but still it doesn't mean that we are not able to make it, though it is a DAW for the more mature crowd. This is proved to be true when I view reviews on you tube they are no young people saying hey I use Sonar most of the videos are done by fifty yr old men and upward!

dubdisciple

Doktor Avalanche
How did the topic get from 'why is Cakewalk advertising porno?' to this??

because the original topic cleared up pretty quickly and topics typically evolve

Hello!  OP here...
 
Personally, I find the evolution of this thread absolutely fascinating.  I typically avoid any thread that has gone to three pages or more because, by that time, it has devolved into total nonsense.  This time though...well...my name's at the top, so I've chosen to pay attention.

• Who knew that a single Whole Foods store nets more than your typically DAW vendor in a year?
• Who knew that Cakewalk and Steinberg don't stab each other in the back at trade shows?
• I didn't know that some see SONAR as the "DAW for old farts".  (I unfortunately speak as a card carrying "old fart".)
• I didn't know anything about the editing style in Vegas vs Adobe Premiere.
• Who knew that some equate Cubase with porno?  Is that how they got all their users?

You gotta love it!

Some seem to forget new is not always better. Innovative is not always better. It can be, but it is NOT a given.  There is a reason a re-formed trash can lid is still used in music. In case anyone hadn't noticed, some music lasts, other music doesn't but is a hoot for a while. Pick a side and have at it, and leave the other side alone.

I went to a college that had no "arts" but ended up teaching myself guitar the last couple years. I went to the library and they had only one book on music theory... I flipped to the copyright page and was 1913! Oddly enough, that book was (and is) still relevant (funny how that works).

dappa1
I agree with the demographic Sonar really caters for 40 + crowd and that is one reason why we are not on the cutting edge and the powers that be move slow to make it so. 
 
All the young people move with Ableton...FL Studios they seem to be the DAWs that real musicians flock to. Not saying they are not real musicians here. The think with old people is that they are usually set in their ways and new ideas are not embraced. That is probably what makes it hard for Sonar to be truly innovative they maybe scared to lose their customer base. But you can always have new customers who become your customer base and then you may start getting in there with the top three four DAWs that are out there now.
 
Sonar is good for the hobbyist obviously they maybe one or two who are professionals and can afford the really really good plug ins that we mere mortals will never be exposed to but still it doesn't mean that we are not able to make it, though it is a DAW for the more mature crowd. This is proved to be true when I view reviews on you tube they are no young people saying hey I use Sonar most of the videos are done by fifty yr old men and upward!

So now Sonar is the nursing home DAW. You heard it here first folks. If that can be inferred from who does or doesn't create YouTube videos then I won't share with you what I could conclude from your comments.

dappa1
I agree with the demographic Sonar really caters for 40 + crowd and that is one reason why we are not on the cutting edge and the powers that be move slow to make it so. 
 
All the young people move with Ableton...FL Studios they seem to be the DAWs that real musicians flock to. Not saying they are not real musicians here. The think with old people is that they are usually set in their ways and new ideas are not embraced. That is probably what makes it hard for Sonar to be truly innovative they maybe scared to lose their customer base. But you can always have new customers who become your customer base and then you may start getting in there with the top three four DAWs that are out there now.
 
Sonar is good for the hobbyist obviously they maybe one or two who are professionals and can afford the really really good plug ins that we mere mortals will never be exposed to but still it doesn't mean that we are not able to make it, though it is a DAW for the more mature crowd. This is proved to be true when I view reviews on you tube they are no young people saying hey I use Sonar most of the videos are done by fifty yr old men and upward!

Ludicrous. I won't be 40 for another few years, make "young people" music (just not dance/electronica) and I've been enthusiastically using Sonar for over 3 years.
 
In fact all the young people who are focused on becoming REAL pro ENGINEERS would be using Cubase. I get this from talking to young upstart studio hounds and even retailers. That is understandable because they have the bigger name and it is a good program BUT in the past few years Cake have upped their game. I was about to bail to Cubase a couple years back but now I am glad I didn't. Sonar is more useful to me as an artist.
 
For "oontz, oontz" stuff and live DJ's... no, Sonar is not the best choice but it is a program that has everything needed to create "youthful" music. Much more so than other platforms out there without sacrificing the "dinosaur" element which, hate to be the one to break it to you, has only been having a MASSIVE resurgence in popularity amongst young people for... oh the past decade or so.
 
Methinks you may be the one who is getting a little long in the tooth. The young electronic artists fully understand the advantages of having live instruments interspersed amongst the "zip, zaps, blaps" and "ooglety bloozles".
 
It is about integration of styles and genres these days. Not isolation and staunch closed mindedness. Sonar provides the tools to acheive such integration. It could be better but that could be said of everything.
 
Peace.

It could be better but that could be said of everything.

 
Well, the orgasm I had the other day.....but I digress....
 
There is a way to prefer one to the other(of anything) without having to take a shot at the alternative(s). In fact, it is almost an art....which I am still learning.

dappa1
I agree with the demographic Sonar really caters for 40 + crowd and that is one reason why we are not on the cutting edge and the powers that be move slow to make it so.

 
And the factual basis for this conclusion is...?
 
First, the entire music business is skewed toward over 40 because a) that's where a demographic bump occurred and b), music was important to that demographic bump so it has stayed with music for a long time.
 
Second, SONAR is gaining new users mostly through sales of Artist, which reaches a younger demographic. Even more tellingly, Music Creator is a major success thanks to STEAM...not exactly an old age home. 
 

All the young people move with Ableton...FL Studios they seem to be the DAWs that real musicians flock to.

 
No, they seem to be the DAWs that musicians doing particular genres of music (for which those programs are optimized) flock to. I use Ableton Live for live performance, SONAR for everything else. I'm not stupid: I know that programs don't care what age you are, and that it's a good idea to choose the right tool for the right job.
 

The think with old people is that they are usually set in their ways and new ideas are not embraced.

 
Well again, you're wrong. According to the International Music Summit Report 2015, interest in EDM on YouTube among 35 to 49 year olds grew 80% last year. They seem less set in their ways than someone who would assume they are...
 

That is probably what makes it hard for Sonar to be truly innovative they maybe scared to lose their customer base.

 
You've got to be kidding. First to go 64-bit. First to have a 64-bit mix engine. First to do loop construction, hard disk recording, and deep MIDI editing (and this was 15 years ago...try editing your Acidized loops in FL Studio or Ableton...you can't). First to do Mix Recall in a DAW. First to integrate Microsoft media platform. First (and only) to allow REX to Acid file conversion and editing so you don't have to use ReCycle. First to have a 16-track REX player. First to create a standard for MIDI FX. One of the first DAWs to integrate ReWire (which Propellerheads told me was the best integration they'd seen up to that point). First to create seamless integration among step sequencing, piano roll view, and an arrangement page. Not the first, but included an EDM-friendly Matrix View. One of the first (if not the first; not sure) to handle VST2, VST3, and Direct X plug-ins. First to create native (non-Melodyne) applications for ARA - VocalSync and Drum Replacer.
 
Know any EDM artists who use loops, REX files, MIDI FX, plug-ins, matrix views, step sequencers, and drum replacers? Just sayin.' But to be fair, SONAR was so ahead of the curve all this may have occurred before you were aware DAWs existed.
 

Sonar is good for the hobbyist obviously they maybe one or two who are professionals and can afford the really really good plug ins that we mere mortals will never be exposed to but still it doesn't mean that we are not able to make it, though it is a DAW for the more mature crowd. This is proved to be true when I view reviews on you tube they are no young people saying hey I use Sonar most of the videos are done by fifty yr old men and upward!

 
You mean like this 50 year old man? Are you a DJ who's played Madison Square Garden? I doubt it.
 
Or maybe you mean old guys like Vivek Madala, Murder FM, Javier Colon, Call of Duty composer Sean Murray, DJ Spooky, Eliud Ortiz, Adventure Club (another EDM act), Luigi Gozalez, Joerg Kohring...here, educate yourself. 
 
Regarding EDM, sure, you can use a program that's optimized for it, and that's great. But the reason why someone like Ilan Bluestone, or me for that matter, uses SONAR is because it has all the EDM tricks up its sleeve AND a whole bunch of additional features that let EDM users...embrace new ideas and not be set in their ways.
 
(And if you've tried SONAR's Kick Start and KickMaster instrument and processor for creating the ultimate EDM kick drum, or the electro loops in the new percussion library, you'd be aware that content is being generated for EDM as well.)

Beepster
The young electronic artists fully understand the advantages of having live instruments interspersed amongst the "zip, zaps, blaps" and "ooglety bloozles".

This is very, very true. The theme of this year's International Music Summit in Ibiza, which is concerned solely with EDM, was "Back2Live" because of the trend of traditional instruments being integrated with electronics. Some examples:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykdvLAfG7gY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeCRfv_M35w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyiemSg_Tv8

To expoound on what I was trying to say earlier...
 
When I listen to music I like listening to "specialists". That is the best of the best or those who create something so off beat and interesting that entices the mind.
 
However the artists I most look up to, and aspire to be like, are the ultra flexible musicians who are able to immediately hop on something, like a mood, genre, style, emotion, etc and reproduce it well. They may not be "specialists" so I might not listen to a full album of theirs but they are intersting, USEFUL to the industry and generally highly intelligent and creative.
 
Zappa was like that. I actually, and don't stone me for this, don't really like LISTENING to Zappa but that freaky old buzzard knew how to do what he needed to to convey a style. I've always had respect for Paul Schaffer for being able to go on stage night after night and lead his band in all sorts of renditions of this that or the other and even use not only his own instrument but direct his band to accentuate a comedic performance. More recently I have gained a lot of respect for Brandon Smalls who not only created and wrote the animated series Home Movies and Metalocalypse but also wrote and played most of the music for the shows.
 
So as someone who wants to be flexible like that (and still be able to be a "specialist" for my own serious artistic projects) I knew what I wanted when I updated my "studio" gear. Sonar was the best fit for that and continues to get better at it yearly (and now monthly).
 
Those other platforms? Fuggedabouttit. I would have had to spend WAY more to get the same options. There are certainly other things those programs do better but without purchasing and installing a half dozen DAWs to just get SLIGHT improvements in a FEW specific areas and LEARNING all those DAWs (never mind having to shuffle files around endlessly between programs) well... Sonar is a nice little cockpit for how I think and work.
 
I came from Nuendo and it was boring. The only other serious DAW I have installed locally is Reaper... again boring (but useful). The first DAW I will invest in if I had the money to use ALONGSIDE Sonar will be Cubase simply for compatibility with other people I will likely have to work with (and since I come from the Steinberg paradigm the learning curve should be low).
 
I will eventually take a poke at Ableton but only to see if it will work for live performance triggering. I would never write/record/mix into it. FL? Not a freaking chance. I have always hated that thing. It's annoying.