Hi all,
 
I while back I asked for some assistance to controlling PC units with my novation impulse 49 as a controller.
 
Because of some limitations It was mentioned the best way to go would be a mackie MCU or a Roland VS unit.
Because of my budget restrictions the Behringer BCF 2000 was mentioned as an option.
 
So I saved up some money and finally bought a unit last week.
 
I read thru the manual Fast biker boy, Jessy G and Blade made and cant get any further than controlling the first PC unit.
I know this is some kind of global limitation that could be "fixed" using AZ conroller from Azslow3.
 
So I already downloaded and installed it (incl the update from yesterday  (azctrl_0_4r0b245.exe). But (offcourse) it does nothing in the beginning and has to be configured.
 
So my question;
 
Does any body have a preset file I can use with AZ controller with my behringer BCF2000 to control PC modules?
Does anybody have a solution how to control the PC modules with a BCF2000?
 
 
 
Thanks in advance guys:D
 
Reza
 
P.S. Does somebody have BCvieuw running in windows 8.1 if so, how did you manage it to display?

When following the instructions from FBB, Blade and myself, did you indeed follow it to the letter? if you missed something in the initial steps,  then you will have problems.
 
Have you downloaded all of the BCF200O LATEST drivers from Behringer first? Have you installed them all in the proper order and performed a warm boot?

Remember to get things working, the BCF must be on BEFORE Sonar is opened. So, configure it, turn off Sonar, and then restart Sonar.
 
Get the BCF2000 overlay for Sonar to see what buttons operate what.

Set up a power supply switch so that when you turn on your studio gear, the BCF comes on; Next open Sonar. The same for closing down Sonar, Sonar gets shut down first, then the BCF gets turned off.
 
 

Hi Jesse :D,
 
Wazzup?
 
thank you for your reply.
 
The Unit itself is on the latest firmware. I have it running in MCso mode (MackieControlSonar). 
The unit itself is working just fine.
 
I came across a few oddities witch is somewhat explained in the documentation but I want to be sure.
 
I can not control all plugins (fxbin) with it running in MCU mode. For instance the Sonitus FX plugins doesn't seem to map more than the first control per bank here. Others work fine. Haven't tested all.
 

1. But could it be correct that not all VST/DX/VST3 plugins are supported?

 
I can control the first ProChannel Unit (if they have the white ACT mappable border around it). No luck in changing the controlled PC module when using [Edit mode] [M1] [upper shift] [ch>] or [ch<].
 
This command however works with plugins inserted in the fxbin. As I can switch around here. Not all plugins 'map' all there parameters though.
 
When I use the DYN "section" it will only work when a PC compressor is inserted first
 
When I use the EQ section it will only work properly when the quad qurve EQ is the fist ProChannel inserted.
 
When I used the sonitus FX EQ and compressor in the FX bin the EQ and Dynamics will control the first plugin inserted in the ProChannel.
 
As I mentioned before in plugin mode when a track with plugins in the fxbin is selected the plugin works great as I can cycle through all plugins inserted in the selected track and can almost always (Sonitus Fx doesn't work maybe because it is DX only?) alter all parameters (which will require bank changing of course, as not all plugins have a max of 8 controls).
 
So Jesse I remember That it was agreed that the ProChannel module that is first in the chain will be controllable. Yet you seem to assume that I did not install properly.
 
    2. Did I misinterpret you? and are the ProChannel modules controllable with the BCF2000?
    3. I see you also use Win 8.1, Did you manage BCvieuw to work?
 
Also I haven't managed to work out how to "navigate" thru Sonar with the BCF. UP/down [project view|logic] left/right [consoleview|logic] to change the selected track and then cycle thru plugins preferable the PC modules.
 
    4. Do you know how to navigate thru Sonar using the BCF2000?
 
Thank in advance,
 
 
Reza

There are 2 separate parts of the setup:
1) configure what BCF send/understand. It should correctly mimic MCU so that (2) has a change to work. Firmware, drivers and switch on sequence are important.
2) configure sonar control surface plug-in to interpret that information. From what I know, that is MCU plug-in from CW. What is can do and by which control combinations you can find in its documentation.
 
MCU plug-in has no ACT mode and it is not ProChannel aware. Any manipulations from (1) are not able to change that.
 
MCU plug-in has MackieControl.ini in the "Control Surfaces" folder (where dll and chm files are). In that file mapping for particular FX plug-ins is explicitly listed (per parameter). And you can change/fix/extend it.
 
AZCtrl has MCU preset which you can try. In the Options Tab select MCU in the "Tweak current configuration..." box. Note it is not well tested and has no per FX configuration. But basic EQ should work (independent on which place it is) and Dyn is ACT mode (you can control anything with it, with usual ACT bugs/limitations).
 

Hi azslow3 :D,
 
Thanks for helping me again.
 
Some more questions (sorry)
 
So do I understand you correct that making changes in the MackieControl.ini file is my best bet except for it not officially support ProChannel (it does control the first in the PC chain are my findings however)?
 
So for the functionality I want I actually need to ask Cakewalk to make the PC modules "controller/MCU aware and my problems would be solved?
 
I guess that would make sense as it would give the functionality on "all" surfaces that support [DYN] [EQ] [send] [plugins] [buss] or [FX] sections, right?
 
I guess you probably understand exactly what I am trying to accomplish.
 
If I understand you correctly the sollution you provide for now partially helps me with my problem,right?
 
As you have guessed I would love a out of the box solution, I do not mind configuring if it would help me with all my needs.
 
Thank you very much.
 
 
Reza

People are waiting for years for MCU plug-in preset. And there is no evidence that is going to happened any soon...
 
MackieControl.ini is the right place to enter information about mapping, for not ProChannel plug-ins and ProChannel EQ at the first place only.
 
You can try my plug-in and see either it works for you. Just select "Mack. ..." build in preset. Use "Dyn" for ACT mode. There is no button assigned to navigate between ProChannel modules, but that is possible to add.

Thanks for the additional info,
 
Very helpfull. So I can use [DYN] mode and assign the prochannel modules that have the white brackets on the controls (Craig's tip). Right?
 
Thanks I understand that I have to configure but I am past that now.
 
If I were to ask for the prochannel to be "promoted" to the [EQ] [Dyn] [plugins] section so all controller could be aware of them that would be less specific and valuable to "all", right? I guess what I am trying to ask, is this a different wuestion that adding specific functions to (only) one controller.
 
Thanks,
 
Riz

I can give you short explanation what it is all about, may be that helps:
 
In general, there are 2 types of plug-ins: software synth and effect processors (FX).
 
Synth parameters are normally touched at performing/recording step. Sometimes live, sometimes after, but the point is they are not normally touched during mixing/mastering. So MCU original plug-in, targeting that later steps, is not controlling synths by design.
 
CW has also introduces "dedicated" FXes long time ago, called "filters". In fact that are just some FXes, but they was defined separately and fixed. So, there was an EQ as a filter 1, Compressor as a filter 2, Gate as a filter 3 and Saturation as a filter 4 (not all was implemented, but EQ and Compressor was). In the X, CW has "upgraded" filters to ProChannel modules. They have added some functionality including changing the order and adding some "uncategorized" FXes. But they still use old Filters interface for Control Surfaces and they have many bugs there (they have not updated the interface, instead they have introduced several quick and dirty halfway working hacks just to support V-700). As the result, old plug-ins like MCU have problems with ProChannel.
 
I do not see any single reason to separate FX bin and ProChannel, I guess that is just a marketing decision (VST is open standard, ProChannel is closed proprietary CW interface and so a good way to collect money).
 
So, "Plugins" are all FX plug-ins. EQ and Dyn are dedicated subset of them accessed throw Filters interface. ProChannel is just another subset from all FXes, with Filter interface for Control Surfaces, broken from the day one until now.
 
CW has also introduced completely separate concept of ACT (see my site and Sonar Reference manual chapter ~40). So it is possible to make Control Surface operate with whatever plug-in is current, independent from FX/ProChannel/Synth origin. Original MCU plug-in does not support that, my preset does (Dyn button mode). Only one plug-in can be controlled per time and ACT learning is buggy (and completely broken for WST3), but after manual setup of corresponding XML file that works reliably.

Thanks Azslow3,
 
So what I am trying to accomplish (all possible PC module control with BCF200) is not (completely) possible? Only just one PC module at a time...
 
So for instance I am done tweaking the EQ of track one and want to do the tweak the comp in track 2 I have to setup again?
 
I don't mind (for now) to be restricted to one type of PC module per fx type (eq/comp), is that possible?
 
Thanks again for the super help.
 
Again excuse me for being a noob. I am reletively new to Sonar and I am missing the expiereience to come up with my own workarounds in Sonar. Thanks for your patience.
 
Please dont misunderstand me, but all the maybe possiblities confuse me.
 
Thank you in advance,
 
Reza

rezab
So what I am trying to accomplish (all possible PC module control with BCF200) is not (completely) possible? Only just one PC module at a time...
 
So for instance I am done tweaking the EQ of track one and want to do the tweak the comp in track 2 I have to setup again?

One PC module at a time means you can not control EQ by first 4 faders and Compressor by another 4 faders.
 
But you can control EQ, then you click Compressor and control it, you can switch any time and as many time you want.
 

Please dont misunderstand me, but all the maybe possiblities confuse me.
 
Thank you in advance,

I propose you move from theory to practice. Install the plug-in, connect your BCF, select Mackie preset, press Dyn button and then click on some ProChannel module, FX or Synth. You will see how it works then.
Note, that most probable you will get only encoders assigned by default for most FXes. But you will get the idea quick. CW has tried to make it logical.
 
You are welcome. And do not afraid  to try things. You can not brick BCF, you can not break Sonar and you pay no extra money