• SONAR
  • [Solved, But Introduces Other Issue] Cut special, Delete Hole? (p.2)
2015/06/25 15:31:08
charlyg
I dunno If I'll ever need it, but I unchecked it just in case!
2015/06/25 15:34:26
Anderton
I marked this "solved." Just to check, I searched on: 
 
Sonar delete hole [solved]
 
...and found the following threads, all of which mentioned disabling Non-Destructive MIDI Editing as the solution.
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Solved-How-to-delete-a-section-of-a-midi-song-including-the-hole-m2956892.aspx
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Solved-Delete-Hole-Not-Working-in-X3e-m3021979.aspx
 
2015/06/25 17:55:29
ampfixer
There's something about NDME that seems broken. I've had to turn it off to solve drag and drop issues and life is much better now. I'm treating it like the 64 bit double precision setting. Turn it off and forget about it.
2015/06/26 01:43:25
Anderton
ampfixer
There's something about NDME that seems broken. I've had to turn it off to solve drag and drop issues and life is much better now. I'm treating it like the 64 bit double precision setting. Turn it off and forget about it.



Can you be more specific about the issue? Multiple people in multiple threads since X2 have said that unchecking Preferences/Customization/Editing/MIDI/Non-destructive MIDI editing causes delete hole to work as expected; none of the people in the threads I checked returned to the thread and said they were wrong, and I've confirmed it by trying it multiple times. So if there's a problem, it seems like it would relate to some other aspect of the operation than selecting a region in the timeline and deleting the hole.
2015/06/26 02:08:21
ampfixer
In my case dragging midi clips and having them touch each other would create a whole bunch of duplicate clips and many take lanes. When I turned off NDME the problem was solved. I guess you missed the thread.
2015/06/26 02:36:43
Anderton
The only threads I looked at were ones that referenced the OP's problem of delete hole not seeming to work properly. So correct me if I'm wrong, but my takeaway from what you're saying is that the delete hole works properly if NDME is disabled, but this simultaneously causes major problems with dragging MIDI clips if they touched each other. Do you know if this has been reported to CW?
 
Edit: I just checked and saw exactly what you're talking about with dragging. However, delete hole works expected if NDME is disabled. So...it seems the current options are: 
  • Check NDME, not have dragging problems, but have to split at region boundaries prior to delete hole.
  • Uncheck NDME, have delete hole work as expected, but have anomalous/unpredictable behavior when dragging.
Is this correct? That's how it's working here.
 
 
2015/06/26 03:26:27
Anderton
Well, it seems like this merits a new option to go along with "Solved," "Answered," and "Workaround" - "Solved, But Introduces Other Issue."
2015/06/26 12:39:16
brundlefly
 
 
In general, creating clip overlaps by dragging clips in the parent track should and will create new lanes to resolve the "collision", regardless of the status of NDME.
 
When overlaps are created by dragging in lanes, the collisions will be resolved by cropping the clip in the 'landing" zone to make way for the moved clip. If NDME is enabled, the cropping is non-destructive (i.e. cropped out notes can be recovered by slip-editing the clip boundary back out). If NDME is disabled, the notes will be destructively removed from the clip (but as noted above, you may have to Apply Trimming manually).
 
AFAIK, this all pretty much works as designed. That said, I know of a several other things that work differently/unexpectedly/unintuitively/incorrectly, depending on the status of NDME. One was fixed fairly recently (terminal controller events not preserved when copying or bouncing clips with NDME disabled).
 
In general I find that MIDI editing is most intuitive and the results are most musically useful when NDME is disabled. But any time I encounter an unexpected result when moving/copying/pasting/groove-clipping MIDI, I retry with NDME in the opposite state, and usually get what I want.
 
 
2015/06/26 14:12:20
scook
Pretty sure at least part of amplixer's issue was the "Slide Over Old to Make Room" bug. This is the thread http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3243746
2015/06/27 09:49:34
Kylotan
I don't understand the idea that this is "working as intended". If a feature says "Non-destructive MIDI editing" that should in no way imply "cannot delete holes". The help description is vague but implies that you should be able to slip-edit clips without losing data, just like with audio, and that's about all it should change. Is there any good reason, apart from to work around this bug, where people would not want MIDI clips to act exactly the same way as an Audio clip?
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