• SONAR
  • superior drummer question (p.2)
2015/06/20 23:18:33
revnice1
SD:
 
Yes, track level meters. Yes, just a stereo track for now, yes I'm monitoring post fader and yes I'm talking about the audio track, not the MIDI.
 
I'm not new to this. Usually, I insert a drum vst and if I forget to bring the level down I get my head blown off because 0 db is really loud and I'm usually working at -12 - -18. 
 
In this case, I've got huge level, the kind that would humble the most aggressive metal player - but volume doesn't match.
2015/06/20 23:36:47
SDCyclist
That's odd... No offense intended... it is sometimes hard to judge the level of experience of a user here. And we all overlook simple things sometimes. At least I certainly do.. If everything looks normal on the post fader track meter, is it being sent to the same output bus as the other tracks? Is it possible that it is being turned down somewhere farther down the signal chain? Can you try maybe sending it directly from the track output to your monitors to see if the drop in volume is happening somewhere in between? I use SD2 regularly amongst other drum virtual instruments and also alongside live drums(and even in different DAWs). It is not a "Superior Drummer Thing" as its perceived volume and actual signal levels on the meters are always right in line what you would expect them to be. If you have plenty of signal leaving your audio or instument track... and less getting to your speakers it is being turned down somewhere. It has to be.
 
   
2015/06/20 23:38:58
lfm
revnice1
>lower levels to make room. Nothing strange about it.
Yes there is! You don't have to lower track 1 to make 'room' for track 2.
 
My 12 tracks are rockin beautifully, lots of headroom, good levels and nice volume. Any other drum program needs lowering before it fits in - but SD has huge level and so little volume I can barely hear the snare when the level is in the red. Something is definitely strange about that.


I experienced that snare felt weak - and I used midi recorded with pads before my current eDrums.
I only use midi for own recorded drums played live - and select eDrum mapping on SD2.
 
It was a mapping thing in this case, that note for snare were not the correct one for SD2.
If it was D# instead of E, or whatever.
 
I don't know if you program drums, use built in midi stuff, or midi for drums from elsewhere.
 
In piano roll, try hitting the key above or below(to the very left on PRV, on keys) where snare hits are now.
If you find one that is stronger, just select and move snare hits up or down to that stroke.
 
Which kit and preset do you use - the normal Avatar and default, or?
There is a mike for bottom and top, and also one that goes through 1176 compressor(internal in SD2).
You can also alter level there.
 
I also have a couple of SDX:es, with Vintage something - and these drums are much more heavy metal strong kind of snare and toms etc.
 
Avatar kit is more general purpose I think, and work for most stuff, but maybe not the most powerful stuff.
At least you have to add bleed and check out the ambient stuff.
 
If you don't find a way, throw us some bars(2-4, or the track) from the midi you drive the track with and we can see if we can assist.
2015/06/21 00:14:20
revnice1
SD and Ifm:
 
This is a simple question of why (any inserted vst) has huge level but not the volume you'd expect to go with that level. I haven't routed anything, mapped anything or done anything - just inserted SD2.
 
The level is great and the sound is great (when soloed) but the volume isn't there. It doesn't match a simple guitar track or any other VI in the song. I tried different kits and presets, they all sound great but they're too quiet. Drumkit from Hell, Rock Solid, Metal Foundry, etc - presets or out of the can, they all have the same problem.
 
I can put in Addictive Drums or Abbey Road and everything is fine.
 
 
2015/06/21 00:32:35
lfm
revnice1
 
I can put in Addictive Drums or Abbey Road and everything is fine.

Maybe you prefer compressed and mix ready drums - nothing wrong with that.
 
Question remains - how do you create your midi tracks?
Some drag-n-drop from either product you mention?
Manually programmed?
 
Give us a slice of midi to look at....a mid file.
2015/06/21 01:22:04
revnice1
>Maybe you prefer compressed and mix ready drums - nothing wrong with that.
Not about that, just a simple question of level and volume.
 
I sometimes drag and drop, I sometimes edit, I sometimes prog manually - the method does not affect the volume!
 
I will try to post a clip.
2015/06/21 03:26:15
tenfoot
I use superior drummer on all of my tracks and find nothing unusual in what you are experiencing. As others have said, the samples in SD are relatively raw and uncompressed.Once you bounce the individual sounds to separate audio tracks and apply some compression and EQ you will find the levels are similar to more processed drum samplers. The difference is that you have the ability to shape the sound (or not!) as you like.
2015/06/21 04:47:37
mudgel
revnice1
SD and Ifm:
 
This is a simple question of why (any inserted vst) has huge level but not the volume you'd expect to go with that level. I haven't routed anything, mapped anything or done anything - just inserted SD2.
 
The level is great and the sound is great (when soloed) but the volume isn't there. It doesn't match a simple guitar track or any other VI in the song. I tried different kits and presets, they all sound great but they're too quiet. Drumkit from Hell, Rock Solid, Metal Foundry, etc - presets or out of the can, they all have the same problem.
 
I can put in Addictive Drums or Abbey Road and everything is fine.
 
 


Obviously the answer is not as simple as the question. Otherwise you wouldn't need an answer.
I too use Superior drummer and like all things gain staging and further level setting is what mixing is all about.

I usually run a Toontrack preset over whichever kit I use, but send each drum instrument to it's own Sonar track through a Drums buss to the Master and do further mixing along the way.
Maybe check where you are monitoring from. It wouldn't be the first time I've been caught with that.
2015/06/21 14:58:18
Sidroe
In most cases, I run SD2 just as 2 track stereo and utilize the eqs and compressors in SD2. If I need to I will pull up SD2s mixer and scroll to Main Outputs 1+2 and insert a compressor there to beef up or tone down the output as the situation calls for. I find for most uses that I can do most everything I have to with the built in plugs in SD2. The times I split tracks out separately is when I need a special kit like delay on just the snare and toms. Things of that nature.
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