Paul P

FreeFlyBertl
we shouldn't care if they don't advertise, we bought already ... ads are expensive, so they do use all a favour by investing money in development rather than magazines ...

I have a feeling Cakewalk would have trouble surviving on upgrades alone.  New users must be brought onboard and they have to be convinced to spend big money.
 
I like Alex's idea of bringing the big Gibson machine into play.  It's already there, so just feed it Cakewalk information and it will blanket the world.
 

 Their entry level programs are great.  That's how you get them in.  In the last century I started on Music Creator which I bought at Best Buy.  Do they still sell boxes at retail outlets?  I went from MC, HS to Sonar because of generous upgrade offers. Don't forget Sonar is marketing from the largest gaming platform via Steam.
 
 If I had Pro Tools I would probably use it as a mastering app. People have done that for years while using other DAWs.

tlw
Simple human inertia makes toppling a market leader very difficult.

True, but there are two elements in play - getting people to switch, and enticing new users.
 
Pro Tools is still the top dog in the industry, but its market share started declining a while ago and continues to go steadily downward. Although some of this is likely due to people switching, a much more important reason IMHO is that people getting involved with music and computers have so many more choices.
 
The Mac was always "home turf" for Pro Tools, but now someone buying a Mac gets Garageband for free. So let's presume they like it. Now they want to move up. Are they going to buy Logic Pro for $199 or buy Pro Tools? I'm convinced a large part of PT's erosion is due to Logic Pro, because people just don't see a need to buy into the whole Pro Tools ecosystem. When I ask what DAW Mac people use at seminars, it used to be mostly Pro Tools with a few people using Logic. Now that's reversed. Granted it's anecdotal evidence, but I think it's meaningful.
 
There's additional erosion from more groove-oriented musicians who gravitate to Live, FL Studio, and Reason. They have absolutely zero need for Pro Tools. Then there's also the fact that SONAR has been picking up a lot of new users since X3 was introduced, and SONAR 2015 is accelerating that. While obviously that's not going to topple Pro Tools, it just underscores that someone getting into DAWs has a lot of choices these days, and to many of these people, Pro Tools just doesn't seem to offer value received.
 
On a side note, as to switching, I am familiar with multiple DAWs and I don't find it that difficult to move from one to another. Over time as they continue to "borrow" features from each other, their basic operation becomes more and more alike. A good example is the external insert in Logic; if you know how it works in SONAR, you know how it works in Logic. I highly recommend that people learn other DAWs, not only because it will make you appreciate SONAR more , but because some have functionality that SONAR doesn't appear to have - but SONAR's toolkit can allow you to do something either similar or identical. A lot of the "how-to" articles I write about SONAR are inspired by theoretically not being able to do something another DAW does, but then figuring out a way for SONAR to do it.

Bristol_Jonesey
The amount of Sonar bashing that goes on over at Gearslutz is enough to make a monkey blush.
 
There are some VERY ignorant people over there who have totally closed minds. I can picture them with their hands over their ears saying "I can't hear you, I can't hear you".

There's a LOT of opinions over at GS... and there's a LOT of "bashing" across the board.    
 

Jim Roseberry

Bristol_Jonesey
The amount of Sonar bashing that goes on over at Gearslutz is enough to make a monkey blush.
 
There are some VERY ignorant people over there who have totally closed minds. I can picture them with their hands over their ears saying "I can't hear you, I can't hear you".

There's a LOT of opinions over at GS... and there's a LOT of "bashing" across the board.    
 

There's only one kind of group more passionate than Reaper lovers and that has to be Sonar haters.  Since I own quite a few different DAW programs, I frequent quite a few forums.  The folks that feel that Cakewalk has wronged them in some way, never seem to forgive or forget.

AndertonI'm convinced a large part of PT's erosion is due to Logic Pro, because people just don't see a need to buy into the whole Pro Tools ecosystem. When I ask what DAW Mac people use at seminars, it used to be mostly Pro Tools with a few people using Logic. Now that's reversed. Granted it's anecdotal evidence, but I think it's meaningful.

Absolutely. Logic is insanely good value for money, but you do need to pay Apple's high hardware prices first of course. I've been using Logic a bit of late because of a collaboration with some people who've used it for years and it makes sense to have everything done in the same software rather than dealing with importing and exporting audio and MIDI between DAWs. If Sonar disappeared Logic would be where I'd go I think.

In my view ProTools left it too late to start to move away from the expensive software/Mac only/full-blown HD system model. By the time ProTools started to cater for the self-recording band/home/bedroom market, which produces an awful lot of good music of professional quality, other DAWs had already got their feet firmly under that table. The shift in music sales to the download market, with its low overheads and no need to worry about pressing, printing, distribution etc. can only further increase that market.

These days ProTools increasingly looks like the expensive DAW that's trying to catch up rather than the one setting the standard others try and emulate.

As for switching between DAWs, I know Sonar best by far, but I've used quite a few over the years. Including doing some mixing sessions using ProTools, though I found myself constantly twitching for Sonar's plugins. I even have Cubasis on this iPad. The only DAW that threw me completley at first sight and I still really don't get on with for anything other than running a few MIDI sequences live, is Live. It just doesn't fit comfortably into my way of thinking about things.

For a Mac user, the only logical reasons (pun intended) i can think of offhand to choose pro Tools over Logic is either being so used to PT workflow that it decreases productivity or your work requires it.  There are few things I find PT to be better at and lots of things Logic is better at. Logic and Sonar give the most bang for the buck IMHO.

The vast majority of the people who actually write and arrange music I know use Logic. A good percentage of those also own Pro Tools, but it isn't their main tool.
 
On the other hand, when it comes to people who's priority is to record and mix artists, and who are usually working in bigger facilities, Pro Tools is it.
 
As for the rest, Cakewalk lost the unjustified "toy" stigmata when SONAR was released. Most people I know agree that SONAR itself is a great tool - they simply don't like the Windows platform.
 
Which is why it'd be futile to hope to convert that crowd to SONAR.
 
 
 

It's the small but handy tools that I like about Pro Tools.  For example, what we call Markers in Sonar are Memory Locations in Pro Tools and not only can you name the location like we do in Markers View but you can give them a number.

So imagine this, you number the Markers for the verses like this, "11" for the first verse, "12" for the second verse, "13" for the third verse.  The choruses are numbered "21", "22", "23."  The intro is "41" and every reintro is maybe "42" etc. (If you aren't seeing it already, the first digit is the sections of the songs (Verse, Chorus) and the second digit is which reiteration of the section you want.)
 
Now when you want to jump to the second chorus all you have to do is type "."+ "22" + "." and you're at the second Chorus.  If you want the third verse you type ".13."  Or you could set up half verses at ".125."  
 
I miss this sort of thing in SONAR.

Except I like using the markers in the timeline, that actually say "verse 1", "chorus", etc.  Typing in numbers has never been my strong point on the keyboard.  lol!
 
plus... I'll always want a little "pre-roll" if I'm overdubbing (or listening), so jumping exactly to the downbeat of the 2nd chorus doesn't work in my instances.

Pro Tools has markers with names in the time line, as well so if you're a mouseketeer, you can click to your heart's content.  (But I bet I can go to four locations in a song on the number pad faster than you can mouse to them.    )