• SONAR
  • Ample Guitar -- great sound but latency?
2014/02/15 12:00:37
Matt
This is a really great sounding sampled guitar.  I already bought it so it's a moot point but I'm not sure I'm understanding the midi time offset.
 
There's a built-in 50ms delay in the sample they explain is to let the sound develop:
 
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=245&t=402869
 
However, the 50ms delay makes the guitar unplayable in real time.  How does the midi time offset help this?  This is only for playback right?  It doesn't know what key you're going to press before you press it... I guess I'm not understanding how this is a solution.
 
Here's another thread where they offer this "solution":
 
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=245&t=402203
 
Am I misunderstanding?
2014/02/16 10:11:24
CJaysMusic
It says to set your track delay to -50ms, which im pretty sure is your offset in Sonar. You also need to take into account the latency that your sound card is set to. Make sure you subtract that from the 50 as it says you need a total of 50.
 
It sounds like more trouble than its worth.
2014/02/16 14:24:57
tacman7
You have a midi guitar or are you using a keyboard?
 
Record a part with a keyboard guitar then play it with ample?
 
This is not an amp sim right? It's a VSTi?
 
Arpeggios or strum arps work well with whole note chords.
 
 
2014/02/16 16:11:51
bitflipper
I demoed that guitar when it was first released, and although the sound was excellent I dismissed it as unusable due to its high CPU requirement. There are too many Kontakt-based instruments available that are far more efficient. That trick of moving the sample start ahead was originally suggested by the vendor, and it's a kludge to cover up problems with the sample player. I'd give the vendor some time to work on optimization and revisit the product in a year or so. In the meantime, check out the Ilya Efimov, Pettinhouse or Orange Tree Samples guitars as more practical alternatives. If those are too pricey, see if Indiginus will fill your needs.
2014/02/17 10:59:22
Matt
Yes it's a vst instrument I'm playing with a midi keyboard.  I was sold on the demos, they are pretty incredible.
 
What I mean is that -50ms offset will make playback sound correctly but it doesn't make it actually playable in real time...?
2014/05/18 16:25:21
Vastman
I don't know guys... I've got a slew of "guitarz" and just bought the AGM,T,F&G and it's frickin' amazing!  as long as timing issues are consistant...
 
I've just been vamping around with all the 14 strum notes and 28 playing modes and this thing is deep but totally rad... no latency issues playing from the keyboard at all...
 
Then again, I'm dumb!  Don't really understand the -50 issue... I just tried setting the "time" on the midi track to this and it was wack... then changed it to +50 and sounds great....Don't even really know if this is what you're talkin' bout... but latency hasn't been an issue to me at all and I HATE latency... Will be mucking around a lot this week as it really excites me to have real guitar riffings going again (my old hands are failing) and the melodies/words are flowing differently with this tool
 
most realistic guitar I've every imagined.  And I haven't even scratched the surface...KVR has a pretty active forum and lots of suggestions by users, some of which already showed up in the latest updates which seem to be coming out fast.
 
The nice thing is a unified interface across instruments, beautiful deep samples, huge stylizable playing (just switching among the patterns and multiple different single strum keys makes it sooooo much realer than anything else I've tried)
 
Biggest headache?  Memorizing all the keyboard triggers.... but they are wonderfully done!
 
BTW, Bit... I don't even think they should have the little demo... it is nothing like the real thing... just gave me a taste of the sound... but after spending the night with the vids from "the reverend" I crossed my fingers and took the plunge.  Glad I did... and their "make your own bundle" discounts were great...
 
 
2014/12/01 14:33:08
Topographic4001
I'm experiencing similar issues, so I'm adding in my experiences to this post. After I purchased all of Music Labs' virtual guitars and liked them, I decided to get every one of the Ample Guitars too' (except the nylon'). Like some have already said' the sound quality of Ample Guitars is great. However, the latency is severe enough' to make it difficult to incorporate into projects. I created a test template an hour ago, which was for me'... to be able to identify the main problem in using it' inside of Sonar X3 (or any DAW for that matter). I wanted to draft out a comprehensive tech support email to Ample Sound'. One major problem comes up quickly though - there is no tech support for Ample Sound' (Surprise !). There is only a forum (like this Cakewalk forum) where users take their problems, and hope to have them resolved. If you're very polite and don't mention other similar products (that don't have the same problems as Ample Guitar) they will reply back to you' without deleting your questions (yes, their moderator controls the forum's content like a Microsoft lawyer). Regarding my test template, I made a 16th note arpeggio phrase on a piano and quantized it deliberately. Then loaded Music Labs Real Guitar' and copied the piano part to it. They both played back perfectly in Sonar X3 Producer. I then loaded Ample Guitars Taylor, Martin & PRS and copied the same piano part to their tracks. The out-of-time' MIDI offset made this sound terrible. I rerecorded the identical part in real-time playing/recording the Ample Taylor' track' along to the now' existing piano/Real Guitar tracks; It was very cumbersome to make the instrument (sound) on the millisecond your mind hears the notes and your fingers play the notes.. yet the Ample Guitar software playback sound' is later than your fingers striking the notes. It takes me back in time to 1996' to the bad old days' of Gigasampler'. It had this same type of latency issue too'. But this is now 2014' and we should be passed this. Ample Sound' must be secretly working on a fix to this issue, since their competition Music Labs' (does not) have this problem. My personal opinion: Ample Guitars Taylor' and Martin' sound richer in detail than Real Guitar's acoustic does, but if it makes your productivity slow down or even come to a halt because of its problematic timing issues; stay with the product that adheres to all of your other software's basic rules for professional quality software instruments').
2014/12/01 15:10:28
Kylotan
You could always play a low latency instrument during tracking, and switch to the high latency version later.
2014/12/01 15:58:18
Karyn
Matt
Yes it's a vst instrument I'm playing with a midi keyboard.  I was sold on the demos, they are pretty incredible.
 
What I mean is that -50ms offset will make playback sound correctly but it doesn't make it actually playable in real time...?


For playing real time the VSTi can't possibly know which key you're going to press next so you'll always get at least 50ms latency.
For MIDI playback, it does know what's coming next, so you can force it to play everything 50ms early, so the sound plays in time.
2014/12/01 16:13:57
Topographic4001
Kylotan
You could always play a low latency instrument during tracking, and switch to the high latency version later.


Yes you can, but after you do it' you have to shift that track in time to match your other tracks normal time, or create a special pre-offset track within Sonar to accommodate Ample Guitar's limitations. If both Music Labs' and Ample Sound' had the identical problem, I'd be forced to do that. I personally' am going to use Music Labs' virtual guitars until Ample Sound' releases an update that doesn't force users to make their DAW's sync to an out-of-tempo software instrument. It's not a user problem - it's a research & development problem that the manufacturer needs to resolve after this topic' (and it's connected complaints) hit the internet blogs... just not their Ample Sound' blog though... eh'hem.
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