AT
And from the people here and out in the non-virtual world most SONAR users - a plurality if not majority, seem to be guitarists.  Singer songwriters or rock and rollers.

A long time ago I couldn't afford it, but I always thought that Cakewalk was built on MIDI.  That is was king of the software-synths-on-midi world.  I waited a long time before finally jumping on board with X1/X2 and discovered that the Cakewalk world was now built on audio, not midi.  Worse, the midi there was had problems. I was kind of disappointed.  What happened ?
 
I also want to record, but I need Sonar for synths and complex midi arrangements.  Drum kits are not high on my list.
 

I will upgrade to platinum, Adictive Drums is not a factor for me. I have BFD 3 and Superior and I did not care for AD1 against what I already have. AD2 may be better but it would not tip the ballence for me.

Platinum looks like a solid upgrade with some important new features, that's why I am in.

This thread marches to a different drummer.

I would have to agree with much of what drone7 has had to say on this thread. I don't think I've ever found a loop that worked in the context of the music I've produced but not for lack of trying. I've wasted countless hours browsing the the bazillion I have and still end up programming my own parts. Sonar is the only DAW I'm aware of that outsources the development of its core plugins to third party vendors.
 

For what it's worth AD2 was a big reason I pulled the trigger on sonar as a first time user.

Anderton
Like pitch correction, loops can be a victim of their own success. When used properly, you can't tell loops are being used so they don't get credit. There are accomplished, human drummers who have heard my music and are 100% convinced that I'm using a real drummer...but they're loops.
 
I'd be the first to agree there are a lot of crap loops out there. But I won't stop going to restaurants because McDonald's exists  

 
Couldn't agree more, Craig, but only within the context you expressed. Moreover, in terms of music genres, the bad songs can tend to drag the good ones down with them, it's the nature of the beast.
 
Regarding certain other comments by 'has beens', how many times have i heard Rock-music pundits in here talking down their guitar-neck nose at us EDM producers with derogatory (ignorant) comments. As if we just push a few buttons and the song makes itself.. LOL. The amount of time, intelligence and creative energy required to make an 'exemplary' EDM song is extremely taxing, just like anything worth taking notice of, good things take time.
 
Just like Rock music or whatever, it needs a melody, it needs to be mixed, it needs well-written vocals, it needs good base sounds, it needs time and it needs to be constructed to a work-of-art, and then eventually mastered. This does not happen on its own or without 'effort', it needs intelligence and patience and an understanding of harmonious blends of melody. With anything in life, there are people and companies who do things on the cheap, quick and nasty, and there are the real-deal proponents. A well-produced world-class EDM track is a feast for the ears and emotions of any audiophile music-loving discerning listener, quite frankly, music-wise, IMO there's nothing better on the planet, except maybe a well-recorded (and i mean 'well-recorded') Rock song from the likes of... Bon Jovi, Aerosmith, The Cars, Cheap trick. Poison, Roxette, Fleetwood Mac, REO Speedwagon blah blah. But if anyone thinks a world-class (and i mean world-class) EDM song takes no intelligence to make... YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING YOURSELF!!!
 
 
Regarding third-party add-ons in Sonar, i downloaded the 'full' version of Breverb II (not the cut-down version found in Sonar) quite a while back, and soon after got rid of it, and bought the Eventide "Ultraverb", now that is what i call a Reverb! Apart from algorithmic Reverbs, and in terms of Convolution verbs, REmatrix IMO is second to none! The best of the best. Altiverb doesn't stand a chance next to the full version of REmatrix. It's all about cherry-picking the best of the best.
 
When  you hear the crap quality that people are settling for with an iPod/iPhone and ear-buds, then you'll know why i spend $500 on my headphones (which by the way is regarded as cheap and nasty by audiophile elitists) and $300 on a portable headphone DAC/Amp to drive the headphone correctly via the digital micro USB port from my phone, then you will 'hear' the music as it was recorded, and then you'll know what's going-on at my place. Quality people, quality! Not hype, just quality! Don't play games with the music.
 
Please someone tell me if i'm ranting, i think i'm starting to rant, it's 4.37am in the morning here, i haven't slept a wink and don't even know why i'm sitting here LOL
 
 
 

Drone7
 A well-produced world-class EDM track is a feast for the ears and emotions of any audiophile music-loving discerning listener, quite frankly, music-wise, IMO there's nothing better on the planet,
  

As I'm not very familiar with all the varieties of EDM artists out there, so can you please suggest some "well-produced" artists or songs that I can feast my ears on?  

Do i detect disingenuous overtones? You're a funny man. Anyway, just for starters...
 
Try Samantha Jade "Firestarter". And not AAC or MP3 if you wanna hear it properly.
 
Try Ellie Goulding "Burn". And not AAC or MP3 if you wanna hear it properly.
 
Try Nicki Minaj "Pound The Alarm" (not the 'explicit' version). And not AAC or MP3 if you wanna hear it properly.
 
 
Remember, listening to the AAC or MP3 version is not conducive to displaying the "well-produced" aspect of it, just in case you needed to be reminded.
 
 

Drone7
Do i detect disingenuous overtones? You're a funny man. Anyway, just for starters...
 
Try Samantha Jade "Firestarter". And not AAC or MP3 if you wanna hear it properly.
 
Try Ellie Goulding "Burn". And not AAC or MP3 if you wanna hear it properly.
 
Try Nicki Minaj "Pound The Alarm" (not the 'explicit' version). And not AAC or MP3 if you wanna hear it properly.
 
 
Remember, listening to the AAC or MP3 version is not conducive to displaying the "well-produced" aspect of it, just in case you needed to be reminded.
 
 

LOL......no danger.....no overtones.......just an honest question. :))
Thanks for that....I'll def. check them out.
 
Starting with Firestarter, Burn, and then Pound The Alarm..........(a fireman should arrive shortly).
 

I'm not about to get into the EDM argument, that's not going to end well.  However I will say to the point of the thread that I realize customers want to use the product in different ways.  I've never touched the matrix view.  That's just not how I make music.  But I realize with the popularity of Fruity Loops and Abelton, that there is a market there and CW would be foolish not to try to tap into that.
 
To Craig's point, being a drummer, I have a love/hate relationship with MIDI drums, sequencers and loops.  I don't doubt that they take skill to produce, but I just want to slap the person who invented the term "beat producer".  Was Buddy Rich a "beat producer"?
 
Having said that, I'm for more music being created, not less, and if not having a drummer on hand, or not enough sufficient tools to record them properly, I totally get why loops and VSTi's are important.  Craig's stuff sounds great, and it's well produced, even if it's just drum loops, and the creativity involved makes it unique.
 
If you've ever heard Don Henley's "I will not go quietly" off his End of the Innocence album.  That was the first time I heard a drum machine being used successfully where it sounded organic and authentic, and since then those tools only available to the select few are not available to all, and that's a good thing.
 
I do hope in the internet age that there is more collaboration between real players.  I know there are some sites out there, but they are of moderate success from what I've seen, and guys on You Tube doing the latest Seven Dust cover collaboration doesn't cut it.  I'd rather see new music being produced.  I feel this is the future of the home studio, rather than loops.  After all music is an interactive medium.
 
But getting back on topic, we all have to concede that Sonar, needs to accommodate to a diverse customer base.  I'd love to see the days return where Sonar owns the PC DAW market.