Anderton

Mesh
 
Craig, reading your comments on loops (which I haven't used in quite some time) has got me interested in them. Are these loops available in the current Platinum version (what you've described above (which Brian approved))?  
 
(During the installation, I only recall seeing the Loopmaster and other loop based stuff that was included in X3).

They were made specifically for the membership program, are not available anywhere else, and will be included with an upcoming update. However, eventually the loops may be available for sale to non-members. As amazing as it might seem, not everyone uses SONAR but they still need good loops 

Craig, have these loops come out yet for Members?

Pretty sure that's a no Michael. Craig does state

They were made specifically for the membership program, .....and will be included with an upcoming update

Understood, but I believe he mentioned this back in February and I have been to busy working to actually keep up with page after page of off topic comments. I thought I would just cut to the chase.

ADD2 was not a deal closer for me either. I prefer Superior Drummer and even EZdrummer 2. I'm not all that thrilled with the samples in ADD2, but I do think Sonar Platinum (even without ADD2) was well worth the price. I too would like to see Cakewalk focus more on the mastering side of things. I keep thinking a mastering suite like (or similar) to Studio One would be the Bees-Knees.

Please... no more stupid posts like this...   

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]

Mystic38
I have never had an issue with the Alacrity that Cakewalk has fixed bugs.. X3 received the same exact "boatload of bug fixes on an accelerated schedule", as it went from a to e in rapid time, and i have always found the bakers personally to be very interested in a robust product, and have worked with some in detail offline in pursuit of a resolution, so i do not think speed of bug fixes is a valid counterpoint.
 
Contrary to your view, there is a HUGE amount preventing a user from waiting until the 12 months is up and installing the last version.. say this coincides with the introduction of the *easy* button then any and all associated bugs introduced (of course not on purpose Andrew !!!) with the easy button they get to keep, never fixed..... so in this case a user would have made a financial commitment to CW and not been left with a robust release....If you want an example then simply consider a user who theoretically timed out 2 days after Everett was released... 
 
None of this is in any way a slight on the talents or intent of the bakers, and it is pretty obvious that the development & test methodology has improved substantially at CW over the last couple of years, however, while moving to a concept of more regular feature enhancements is a noble idea, I simply have a philosophical problem with combining updates (robustness, performance & bug fixes) with upgrades (new features) on such a regular basis, and personally believe that restricting upgrades to say once a quarter, with the two intervening months being maintenance update releases would be more beneficial to the user base as it would highlight 4 releases in a 12 month term of high confidence & quality status ie an upgrade release plus 2 maintenance updates.
 
azlow3 captures it well in the post above
 

Anderton

Mystic38
At the end of the day, I have absolutely zero interest in a subscription model that drip feeds new features and new bugs along with old bug fixes. This has the byproduct of forcing multiples ongoing updates and reduces both confidence and stability in my studio system.

But you're overlooking that you've also been given a boatload of fixes, on an accelerated schedule. Overall, this has improved core stability. The relatively small (and limited number of) issues that have been introduced during an update have been fixed in the next update. For example, when the virtual controller was introduced, there were some tweaks in the next release. However, any issues in the virtual controller didn't affect the rest of the program. 
 
There will always be bugs introduced with a software update. How Cakewalk is addressing it is one option. The other option is to have all the bugs introduced once a year, then sort them out over several months. I prefer having multiple, regular bug fixes along with some new functionality, with any bugs that result sorted out in a month or less.
 
However nothing prevents you from waiting a year, installing the complete update, and benefiting from the fact that most of the bugs would have already been dealt with over the previous year instead of having them all introduced at once. So even if you wait, it's a better system because most bugs will have already been fixed shortly after they were first discovered.

I think sometimes commonsense needs to dictate policy. So if, in your example, we introduced a major new feature, and it needed some fixes and users had past the 12 months, we would do right by the customer. Don't forget, in this model, we need to make sure users are happier than ever. Bad press like that wouldn't be a good business decision. Nothing in that black and white with us anyway. I think we do a pretty decent job of listening to customers and interacting with them. And let me tell you, the #1 user request we always get is to continue to improve the core program. And that's definitely a big part of the focus here with the monthly releases. 
 
Anyway, we'd definitely evaluate it on a case-by-case basis. And you know our hope, and how this new model works best, is that customers will continue to be happy and upgrade regularly. It's on us on deliver value so you stick with us. That's good business as well. 

I know this policy to be a fact. That is, when out of the ordinary events occur, Cakewalk looks after you. I had a snafu earlier when Sonar went into Demo mode at the worst possible time. First it was fixed quickly and second, as a token of good faith, Cakewalk extended my licence time by several months. Now I didn't ask for any compensation but obviously someone at Cakewalk thought so.
Now I know some will say "and so they should" but the reality is that nothing is set in stone regarding those situations; they don't have to. I've mentioned Cakewalk this and Cakewalk that, but in reality it's people like. Andrew, Willy, Dan et al that interact with us and are the company. Thanks Cakewalk.

Much of this insanity is the direct result of the CW managers introducing the monthly payment plan at the same time as introducing the "membership" program.
 
(I still do not know what the membership program is. It seems it is twelve months of support whether I pay in advance or monthly? So, what is the point of calling it a "membership?")
 
The monthly payment plan is not correlated with monthly updates. It is just coincidental.
 
It is clear it is NOT a SOFTWARE subscription.  Emphasis on SOFTWARE.
 
Paying in advance for a product or service that is delivered over a set period of time IS a subscription as defined by every dictionary on the planet. And now it is clear that we can purchase a twelve month traditional subscription by paying the total in advance OR accepting the offer to make monthly payments.
 
This means making monthly payments is just a PAYMENT PLAN.
 
You don't pay, you get evicted. You got what you paid for. How is that not easy to comprehend?
 
You don't want to pay monthly, pay for the year at the discounted rate, and Bob's yer uncle.
 
As to the OP, it essentially costs CW nothing to include CW owned products, other than storage and download service. The products are already paid for. And, I assume, many of the 3rd party add-ins are pretty much free to CW, and us users, because the 3rd parties want to build market share.
 
Yet, I would like to see the CCC provide more division of stuff. So I do not have to get what I already got from being a CW user since CW9. IE: download DP updates without the samples.
 
Time for more beer.
 
============
Bugs, comments & suggestions:
We expect this application to not always perform as described. This is by design. Our software code is free of mistakes and errors. Yet it does contain undefined behaviors, and undocumented results.
Enjoy the process of discovery.
Please inform us of any unique functions you encounter that we may include them in the list of known features.
 
 

I been Happy with CW own Session drummer , I'ed be more happier if CW had just upgraded session drummer, But Im in the same boat, I have several drum options , and to me, it depends on the samples and what dynamics you add.  Countless hits were made for so many years with just samples and players that trigger them. Its what you do to it, to make it work for your track.  
 AD2 Imo had to be a major factor for the platinum upgrade. honestly there really was no need for another drum module but we got another one. I hate the fact Session drummer is at its EOL. Its a lot easer to look at then AD , less convoluted. better on your cpu, and made by our own bakers. 
 

 OP's title made no sense.  Some DAW developers like to market to new users first.  It's $500 vs. $199. See what Propellar Heads is doing to get new users.  
 
 I also think some people when upgrading products just want the basic app.  It's annoying upgrading a new release of Kontakt they still ship you the same sample set when all you really need is the app.
 

michaelhanson

Anderton

Mesh
 
Craig, reading your comments on loops (which I haven't used in quite some time) has got me interested in them. Are these loops available in the current Platinum version (what you've described above (which Brian approved))?  
 
(During the installation, I only recall seeing the Loopmaster and other loop based stuff that was included in X3).

They were made specifically for the membership program, are not available anywhere else, and will be included with an upcoming update. However, eventually the loops may be available for sale to non-members. As amazing as it might seem, not everyone uses SONAR but they still need good loops 

Craig, have these loops come out yet for Members?

Not yet. I have two loop libraries that are done. As soon as Cakewalk gives me a heads-up on when they want to use them, I will do the final QA so they can be released.
 
I used one of the new loops in my seminar on dynamics at GearFest. People liked the loop