• SONAR
  • Against the law to not use synths (p.2)
2015/06/13 18:19:36
BobF
I'm diggin the blend more and more as I age.  I love some good ole guitar thrown in with old time keys AND other-worldly stuff equally well.
 
To me is not the instrument and synth choice as much as the overall composition.
 
 
2015/06/13 18:20:59
charlyg
I am calm. You seem to be a lot more upset than I am. Every time I get stuck, I go to a video or a manual, and very seldom do I find my answer on my own.  So I ask here and get the answer. I never said I didn't or wouldn't ask questions, and to say I dismissed your advice out of hand is not correct. I have read manuals all my life, and I just don't "get" this one.
 
I don't recall any video telling me to setup my amp sim and vocal effects because my singer/guitarist needs to have the effects on to perform better. I had to jump around 3 or 4 videos before I stopped screwing that up. 
 
So far, my process is
1. get a rhythm guitar track from John put to a click
2. make drum loop for song at correct bpm
3. re-record rhythm guitar with drum loop
4. add bass(me playing)
5. record vocal(John)
6. record lead guitar(John)
7. edit and add spices
8. ready for mixdown
9. Not there yet.
2015/06/13 18:27:09
Beepster
Here's a vid on Matrix view...
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CZUg1_xW6xY
 
Working with clips (shows how to time stretch, edit, convert to Groove Clip and basic editing)...
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gZA0S7eRSWw
 
Recording audio...
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6LOpAPhfDeU
 
Working with Snap/Smart Grid (crucial for loop based work)...
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ymVmf14S7mo
 
The Browser window (for browsing media that can be drag dropped as well as other content)...
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oKWDQGFVLOE
 
That's just some of the free vids in the CakeTV/Sonar University section of the site that pertain to what you seem to desire.
 
http://www.cakewalk.com/CakeTV
 
In the Cake Store there are plenty of more advanced vids for sale some of which I've already mentioned.
 
 
2015/06/13 18:31:46
charlyg
Oh, here's another gotcha I ran into:
I used EZD2 instead of AD2 and had to call Cakewalk to find out why I couldn't drag out the loop... EZ, but not until I called CW for help..
and no triggers etc....at least not yet. We're making basic classic rock and rock ballad type music with a little blues for me.....
 
Ps I have watched most of those vids and also own Groove 3's Sonar Explained and Platinum Advanced...I'm on my 3rd time thru Explained and I'm starting to get it. So I guess, if anything, I'm just dense when it comes to this stuff. Break a computer and I can handle it. 
2015/06/13 18:39:37
Doktor Avalanche
charlyg
I am watching videos, learning Sonar, and I have a confession to make. I DO NOT make music with synths. It seems to be anti-DAW to not get all wrapped up in all those crazy sounds. I like guitars and simple kbds, like a b3 or a Roland. So I just invested in EZkeys, as the EZ stuff(EZD2)  I can "get"...AD2, not so much!
 
It is very  hard to find a video that just drags and edits loops without all the rigamarole(sp?)  my spell checker thought I was trying to say oleo maragarine!
 
 
 
It seems I am in the minority around these parts. /slight rant


If you want synths only might as well head on down to ableton for non stop dubstep.
2015/06/13 18:50:04
Beepster
I have been studying and working with Sonar pretty much daily for almost four years. It is a complex program and I am just recently getting fully comfortable with it.
 
That is why I said stay calm, ask questions and keep looking at the material. People pay big money to learn this stuff at colleges/universities and for good reason. Making full digital productions is hard and complicated.
 
Stick to it and it will get easier. The first couple years for me were a bowel binding stressfest and some days I still want to huck all this junk out the window but it's bloody worth it.
 
Doing this stuff in an analog studio? Now THAT would be a freaking nightmare.
2015/06/13 18:54:26
Beepster
Sorry... it's actually been a little over three years. Seems much longer. That's how freaking hairy this crap can be. And yeah, if you want straight loopty looping Ableton probably would have been a better choice. But if you are recording live stuff as you say then Sonar is a good blend of all sorts of stuff.
 
And don't be afraid of synths or MIDI. They mean much more than just cheesy DX-7 silliness. Freaking EZDrummer is essentially a synth and is controlled by MIDI. Learning MIDI is crucial if you want to use all those organic sounding drum samplers and nice keyboard emus.
 
2015/06/13 19:08:41
charlyg
See there, you've given me hope! I have less than 6 months at this(this time around). I wasted another  months trying to decide whether to use GB, multi-track, or Sonar, and Sonar won as I had a Dos version of cakewalk and a few upgrades over the years.  I started to learn midi then, but got away from it, as the lack of any significant kbd chops kept me limited.....and work got in the way of really learning the program over the years. I am glad I stayed in the upgrade path, as I am only paying $30/month for Platinum!
2015/06/13 19:19:39
Beepster
Good. And sorry if I was coming off as harsh but really I think Sonar, out of all the DAWs, probably has the best free/low cost educational support system/materials. I have managed to spend very little on learning the program and I can do almost anything I need to now (and I attempt to do a lot of screwy stuff).
 
After hearing a little more of your situation I think your best bet as far as vids would be the X2/X3 Complete series by SWA/Karl Rose. It is very thorough and straight forward and is easier to digest than the 2000+ page manual. It goes on sale from time to time so keep an eye out for it.
 
Once you get more comfortable with procedures and terminology (which those vids will help with) then searching for solutions and asking questions when you get stuck becomes way easier.
 
Good luck.
2015/06/13 20:24:17
Kamikaze
Loving the adoption of 'Organic' here, remember it means derived from living matter. Well sounds derived from living matter, would either be derived from me, or from living matter in the instrument itself. I suppose my reeds were living once, or but not my metal flutes or guitar strings. Resonators don't make the sound, the exciters do, so mahogany bodies shouldn't really count.
 
So for music to be called organic, surely it means derived from a living performance, no matter what that is on. And the same for an organic instrument. A synth can be mechanic or organic in that case.
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