Best thread I have read in a long time.  Thanks to all contributors

konradh
Interesting thoughts, jbow.  Thanks for sharing them. 
 
Although I was trained on the classics on both piano and organ for many years and worked as a studio player for a long time, at heart I am a songwriter and that is not necessarily the same as being in a working band.  And although I played acoustic guitar on more tracks that I can count, due to hand injuries all my guitar parts are virtual these days.  (I do keep a Baby Taylor around for songwriting but won't play it in front of anyone!)
 
PS Isn't Rich Mullins the "Awesome God" guy?

Yes, he is. BTW, my favorite acoustic is a Taylor Big Baby. I've heard them talked down but it sounds good enough to me and it "fits".
 
J

I do keep coming back to this thread, although I spend more time thinking about comments rather than replying right away (for good reason).
 
I guess I should start with a simple summary, since both Tom ("the OP's friend") and I come from some of the most rigorous "engineering" backgrounds on the planet. Music is more of an "avid hobby" but I think that is really immaterial to the point at hand (if he joins the forums he can refute/corroborate this statement  (hint hint)). Regardless... I think that is not material to the discussion (epiphany), since a lot of this really focuses on workflow (something rarely discussed).
 
A little (more) background may be needed here (so please bear with me)...
 

1. During our discussion, I made the comment that "Gene Simmons has marketing down to a science... and regardless of what people think of him, people do not attend concerts to hear new "renditions" of music." He replied that his counterpoint was that he attended a concert where the opening act for Eric Clapton didn't show... then Eric proceeded to play (for two hours) then closed with a song which had been released (only that final song had been released). I simply responded that, "You paid $90 to attend a jam session??"
2. We (this forum) rarely share work flows... I think this is bad from the perspective of encouraging others to create. This alone treks down multiples paths, since 'one size' does NOT fit all.
3. The "death" of many 'one-hit-wonders' continues to loom in the background for me... Many spent years performing/perfecting tunes... then finally tracked it. Of course it was good; they had played it for years! Downside is they had 'taken the money and run' for a second album, and this has spelled their doom (Def Leppard is an example of a band who refused such a proposition).

Anyway, back to point...
 

1. I continue to get wrapped around the wheel from the perspective of "best sandbox" (and when to use it). Arguably, matrix view and looping help, but are no "answers." SONAR includes no "tools" to allow for seamless manipulation of a simple "chord progression," let alone something more.
2. Not to offend anyone (truly), but my delusion/affinity for "samples" has run its course.
3. What Tom has done is (far from) "generic"... Many of these songs are full-blown productions (at least the 31 (as of now) I have heard). Demo mode arguably, but "complete."

For me, I am first evaluating this "sand box," and "tools" for production. I think now (for me anyway) I am seeing the "sandbox" as the #1 value from A->B.
  

I work to deadlines, they are a glorious thing in that I could in theory continue to better a project ad infinitum but when a Director says "the sound needs to be done by such and such a date" then it has to be done.
 
All hail deadlines.
 
In my private audio world I have no deadlines and therefore my third album has been 3 years in the making. 35 tracks in and I still can't nail it.

Wrong thread

Going back a few pages but Craig, I like and use some of Waves' OneKnob series and I use Renaissance Vox and Renaissance Axx all the time. They really have "mostly" one knob. I'm all for those. I'm relatively theory-oriented and like tweakability but it's easy to lose track of making music sometimes. If a plug/chain sounds good and has a knob that goes between bad and good or good and better, I hope Cake releases it!

markyzno
I work to deadlines, they are a glorious thing in that I could in theory continue to better a project ad infinitum but when a Director says "the sound needs to be done by such and such a date" then it has to be done.
 
All hail deadlines.
 
In my private audio world I have no deadlines and therefore my third album has been 3 years in the making. 35 tracks in and I still can't nail it.

Agreed, I can relate to that.
To get a bunch of songs 100% finished, with lyrics and recorded I committed to send a song every year to what we in europe have "Eurovision Song Contest". Song were not close that genre, but it helped having that deadline - and also figure out if that was something that I wanted to do, writing songs and make demos of those.
 
15 years ago I had a couple of Fostex portastudios, and eventually started to use a laptop for midi stuff and sync with porta - to get some of what computer daw can offer.
 
And then 10 years ago bought Sonar and went for daw all the way. Full history goes back to 80's and tape portastudios and even midi sequencing - but had to leave that idea since I wanted audio recording and that was tape only and Fostex 16-channels machine were out of my league. The planning required to do all on 4-track tape took so much out of creativity, not making too many sound-on-sound overdubs.
 
It is easy to get cought up by all options there are in daws in terms of plugins and instruments - but it would be wrong to blaim daw technology for that. Just commited to do something music related every day - like practising drums, bass, guitar, keyboards or whatever - read up on something - making a song closer to final mix, do some new takes on one mix etc.
 
So OP's friend got plenty recorded - well, I got plenty recorded using portastudio too, because that was all you could do. But the mixes I don't even listen to from that, horrific - I transferred and re-recorded in daw and aim to finish eventually, nothing wrong with the musical idea.
 
 
Also raising the bar quite a bit in making it sound professional - takes more work. I thought I spent a lot of time doing two evenings or a week with a mix, and now know this is nothing compared to what it takes.
 
Having all midi and audio abilities integrated like a daw is awesome. I did take a look a year ago on Tascam MC32 and some others - but still so limited if wanting midi abilities. If there were some loop based tools now, but not enough to make a swap, midi was still to sync with MTC to a daw.
 
So we mustn't blaim our tools for not using them, or using them in the wrong way. Practising on different instruments always bring another approach to notes and intervals and beats and create new embryos for songs too - nothing is wasted in terms of songwriting doing that. Just fooling around on instruments bring something new to work on - dictaphone always on reach distance.

deadlines..............If it wasn't for the last minute, nothing would get done!
 
 

Tunerman
deadlines..............If it wasn't for the last minute, nothing would get done!
 
 

 
Agreed. Cant beat ultimate procrastination then that ARRGHHHHHH feeling before a deadline.

^^ There is nothing as motivational as the last minute
 
Rather than go off the deep end with drastic shifts in work flow, the Matrix View has been getting a lot of love this weekend as a compositional tool. I am finally getting a bit more finesse with working with its intricacies, but it allows for significantly quicker rough compositions of song sections (by column).
 
I may truck down this path for a bit, because "in theory" this would allow for tracking of those parts; then require minor editing, fills, lead track, and vocal work.