Hi, guys. So I've been getting my keyboard (Yamaha MOX6) all set up to work with SONAR, both for recording the keyboard's onboard sounds, and for using it as a MIDI controller for soft synths. The MIDI controller part is no problem, I've already got that all worked out. But when setting up to record the keyboard's onboard sounds via the USB connection, I've found out that the keyboard's output is fixed at 24-bit/44.1kHz, and that switching to 24/48 (which I was looking to record at) is not possible.
 
The alternative, I believe, for recording the key's sounds would be to run out from the unit's line/phones output, into my interface, and just record the audio like any other instrument. The main trade-off, as I see it, would be that no MIDI data would be recorded.
 
Before I decided how to proceed for my future recordings, I wanted to get some of your opinions on what you think is more beneficial: just recording audio for the keyboard's sounds while being able to record everything at 24/48, or capturing the MIDI data from the keyboard while settling for 24/44? (Again, none of this affects my ability to use the keys as a soft synth controller; I can do that at any sampling rate.)
 
PS: I'm assuming it's not a good idea to try to record all other instruments at 48kHz, and then switch over to 44.1 for recording the keys in the same project...
 
All opinions are appreciated

It is a good question.  Firstly to transfer audio from a synth digitally can be a good thing but in terms of its sound. I would be capturing the synth both digitally and via the analog outs and comparing the two.  If the digital connection sounds better it is a very good way to transfer the audio.  I have some synths that sound great over the digital but the same over the analog outs.  Sometimes the analog outs can have a little character to them as well.  Sometimes the analog outs can sound a little worse and noisy too.
 
It is possible to still capture the midi out via USB and the analog audio at the same time from your Yamaha.  One does not forbid the other.
 
Not sure why people do projects at 48K unless it ends up on DVD or in the TV industry.  I think the improvement at 48K over 44.1K is a bit of myth in reality.  Might as well work at 44.1K and then you have both options in terms of audio transfer.  And no conversion for CD pressings.  Better not to have to convert sample rate if you can avoid it.  One less process.
 
I think my Kurzweil allows you to set the sample rate over the digital outs but not all synths allow this.  44.1 was a well chosen rate I think on Yamaha's part.
 
I tend to err on the side of capturing audio via analog. In most cases with me the analog outs sound as good.  With digital you will have to consider clock issues.  Can the Yamaha be slaved digitally while it is feeding your DAW.  It may only run as a master digital clock meaning you might have to slave your DAW digitally.  This might mean going into your drivers and running them on an external digital lock during transfers from your synth to the DAW. You have to check all that out.  Not doing so can result in glitches, clicks and spits.

Jeff Evans
 
I tend to err on the side of capturing audio via analog. In most cases with me the analog outs sound as good.  With digital you will have to consider clock issues.  Can the Yamaha be slaved digitally while it is feeding your DAW.  It may only run as a master digital clock meaning you might have to slave your DAW digitally.  This might mean going into your drivers and running them on an external digital lock during transfers from your synth to the DAW. You have to check all that out.  Not doing so can result in glitches, clicks and spits.

Very good input.
 
The clock can be derived from spdif as well, but you need to set the clocking master in Sonar for recording and playback. But then recording from you soundcard you might need to change that back and forth all the time.
 
I would just use analog outs on Yamaha and never worry about it. Whatever sounds you run from midi while working on the Yamaha can just run in realtime without any pops or other sync issues.
 
Any spdif out directly from Yamaha - to connect to soundcard spdif input?
I would prefer that - so soundcard drivers can sync it all - AD converters and possible ADAT and spdif input.
 
Audio over native USB from different sources is a PITA.
 
The degradation of audio is minimal running analog outs from Yamaha. I tested loopbacks DA->AD with RMAA software(free to use) and you can check quality of your converters.
 
http://audio.rightmark.org/index_new.shtml
 
 

Stick with 44.1 . Resampling audio from 48 to 44.1 always seems to change the nuances of a mix and will require an extra stage of tweaking with EQ (at least my experience). Upsampling from 44.1 to 48 if needed for  video applications is never an issue, I do some sound design for video and have never had a problem doing it. 

Thanks for all of the helpful input, everyone!
 
I think I am leaning toward just capturing the audio via the analog outs so that I can stick with 48 khz (despite the [appreciated] warning from River). Any extra bit of quality and reduced latency that I can squeeze out of my setup is worth the tradeoff to me.
 
To the best of my knowledge, the only real benefit I would be missing out on by not capturing the MIDI of the keyboard performance would be the ability to tweak and adjust the individual notes afterward, if needed. But if I wanted that level of perfection, I should just create the music in PRV... or work on my chops
 
Unless there is a big aspect that I'm missing...

I have a MOX8 and I record the audio via USB at 44.1k and it sounds fine to me. The USB out is a 4 channel output, so you can record 2 sets of stereo outs at the same time. You will only be able to record 2 channels at a time if you record via analog. By the way, even if you record via analog outs, you can still simultaneously record the midi data via USB.

Thanks for your reply, rlared.
 

rlared
By the way, even if you record via analog outs, you can still simultaneously record the midi data via USB.

While recording at 48 kHz? And what are the advantages of doing so?

The MIDI that's recorded or played back is not effected by the audio's sampling rate. From that perspective you can set whatever sample rate you want. When recording the analog audio.

It's already been suggested in earlier posts. Basically there is no reason to choose 48khz over 44.1 unless you are specifically creating audio for DVD. If you are creating audio for CD or the Internet, the little extra higher sampling rate at 48 vs 44.1 is not significant enough to make a difference. Why create extra steps if not required.

If you really want a benefit from higher sampling rates then you need to consider going to 88.2 or 96 kHz. There is some thought that internal processing benefits from this higher resolution (processing of fx) and that this benefit is retained when down sampling for playback formats where the sampling rate is much lower. For most use and depending your equipment level this is unnecessary.

I don't see why you couldn't record midi while using the line outs for audio. Use the USB cable for midi - just don't record the audio that way.

Recording Audio and Midi (it never hurts) from a synth is a good thing to do and there are reasons.
 
Those midi performances can be edited and altered later and alternate versions of the original part can be saved.
 
Tempo changes over midi always sound good and the synth maintains the same sound being played faster/slower.
 
The best reason.  The recorded midi performance can be re-assigned to a different synth.  A given original part can sometimes sound much better and very different using a totally different patch.  Or a similar patch but layered for more lushness and fatness and width etc.. A similar patch might be on its own but a better tonal choice for your given mix later on eg a different Hammond B3 sound playing the same part.
 
Your internal virtual instruments could be used to beef up the original sound.  It is good to have the original audio as well.  It may end up as part of the overall sound or left out completely.  Just more options.
 
You are free to record at any project sample rate.  No digital clocking issues and being limited to clock freq from the synth.
 
I have encountered synths that sound slightly better over the digital connection.  They can be cleaner, quieter, more transparent and sometimes transient too.  It is worth me making that connection for certain sounds only as well.  For deeper more analog sounds the analog outputs sound identical and are sufficient.
 
(out of interest my Yamaha DTR2 DAT stereo mastering machine sounds a lot better digitally (SPDIF) It is quite OK analog wise but the sound over the digital connection is stellar and well ahead. It pays to check when you are transferring anything that has both output options)