• SONAR
  • How do I get my (Novation Impulse 49) "Control surface" controlling ProChannel parameters? (p.3)
2015/06/09 00:12:45
AndyDavis
I have an Impulse 49 and I am able to control both VST/VSTi and Pro Channel items. I do it by switching between Automap for the VST items and the ACT plugin for the Pro Channel. 
 
Select Automap by pressing the plugin button on the Impulse. Use ACT by selecting the MIDI button (you would press both to use the knobs in mixer mode)
 
Of course, you will have to set up an ACT controller to use this. ACT is usually pretty flaky, but actually behaved pretty well with the Pro Channel items.
 
One extra caveat, the Impulse rotaries work as rotaries for Automap enabled plugins. I.e., turn the knob and the value increments from the current value in the plugin. However, the rotaries work as plain old MIDI CCs on in MIDI mode. This means that you will see the parameter value jump to match the value reported by the knob.
 
That last bit may be a deal breaker, but at least you can play with it while scouting for something better.
 
 
2015/06/09 07:36:10
Jesse G
Hey, I found my original post from 2006.
 
I have been searching a few days for this and could not remember what title I gave the posting.  Here is my original write up on the BCF2000 from 2006.
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/BCF2000-and-Sonar-users-REJOICE-m879930.aspx
 
Peace,
 
Jesse G.
2015/06/09 10:00:54
Jesse G
OK,  I went back into Sonar X3e  to take a look at how my MCU worked with Pro Channel and I discovered something that I hadn't really noticed before.  When effects are inserted in the FX bin the MCU will see only the first plugin in for the Pro Channel (regardless of what module it is, and then it will see the reset of the plug ins that have been inserted in the FX bin for that track, not the Pro Channel.
 
The MCU will not be able to see any other Pro Channel plugins beyond the first one in the Pro Channel list.   So in Track one, I have The Pro Channel EQ so, the MCU will see that as the first plug in on that track when I press the  plug ins button twice under assignments (P1.) To see the rest of the available plugs in, press the Global view button and the green light will come on. Now you can hold down the M1 button while pressing the Channel button and you will see the plug ins which have been inserted in that track appear as P2., P3., and so on. If there aren't more plugs available, the next location P4. will be blank. 
 
So, First plug in seen is Pro Channels first module in the list and then subsequent plug ins are all that have been inserted into the Tracks FX Bin.
 
My mistake with the MCU and Pro Channel:
 
As I was going down the various tracks testing, I would see the Pro Channel EQ, the Console Emulator, Tube Saturation the Compressor, however, each one was on a different track as the first Pro Channel Module, which allowed me to see each piece and edit its settings.  I haven't gone down the Pro Channel with my MCU to edit the modules in the channel strip.  Keep in mind that they are editable if they are listed as the first one on the track. 
I do like the Channel strip, however, If I manage plugins with my MCU,  they are usually the ones that have been inserted into the FX bin because I use those the most.  I just have my "Go To" set of  plug ins that I love to use..
 
Peace,
 
Jesse G. 
2015/06/10 09:51:06
rezab
Thank you all for the replys.
 
I guess I am not the only one. To bad all these workarounds have to be made to make hardware that will commonly work with DAW's that havn't been around for so long....
 
I will for now try to use my impulse as an ACT controller, as it should save time and money.
 
Next up I will try out Azlow3 magic program and from what I understand (if I could set it up) I would be very happy camper.
 
Eventually I will go for a Behringer bcf2000 and bcr2000 as I have learned these have MCU functionality a huge CW userbase and cost a fraction of the MCU's.
 
If money wasn't an issue now I would go for the MCU's (no brainer) Actually wanted to buy an logic control (was on logic back then) evenually went for the 01x (price an added functionality) It wasn't supported within a few years (no 64bit drivers etc) I stopped my musical career and gave away the unit to a friend (who still uses XP an cubase 5). These type of thing makes the MCU the cheaper unit (if you calculate the supported years).
 
Because I am (was) used to a pretty nice controller in am missing it big time. Touchscreen isn't that good yet in my opinion. Cakewalks take on it anyway (small buttons with a lot of spacing in between). An implementation in the GUI form of touchDAW or touchOSC would be more workable (not pretty but practical IMO). So I leave my touchscreen untouched (the biggest wrong investment I made).  
 
I guess the user base here in CW land is important in these type of situations. Maybe there should be a list of recommended hardware.
 
I now have to much bad experience with salespitches..... 
 
AndyDavis
I have an Impulse 49 and I am able to control both VST/VSTi and Pro Channel items. I do it by switching between Automap for the VST items and the ACT plugin for the Pro Channel. 
 

 
Do you have control over more than one prochannel module per track?
How to setup an ACT contoller (2 controllers?one device?) on the same device?
 
I thought ACT is for fast contol per project...
Is it posible the ACT mappings to be saved? So if I configure once I could use it on all my projects or do I have to configure it every project?
 
AndyDavis
One extra caveat, the Impulse rotaries work as rotaries for Automap enabled plugins.
 

 
I thought of rotaries as a pro,....  learned the real value of a led ring around a rotary the hard way :P
 
 
Thank you all
 
Reza
 
2015/06/10 10:03:50
AndyDavis
ACT follows focus or can be locked to a single module. But I do not believe that a single ACT module can be in control of more than one ProChannel module.
 
The ACT mappings are saved system wide. But, ACT is flaky and sometimes you lose those mappings. I think the phase of the moon comes into play somehow.
 
Sorry, I didn't phrase the rotaries bit all that well. I think rotaries are a plus as well. You don't get rotaries when doing ACT, they are more like plain old MIDI CCs.
2015/06/10 11:51:41
rezab
ok,
 
So with ACT I could only control one PC module per project? And this also is one and only PC module that could be controlled?
 
So you get fine by just controlling one? How do you suggest to work with that?
 
If this is the case I think I have no other option but to move on to Azlow3's (difficult) sollution. (I really do not want to spend to much time settings things up, until now it seems mandatory).
 
Have you tried Azlow3's sollution Andy?
 
Thanks again,
 
 
Reza
2015/06/10 12:14:30
AndyDavis
No, ACT will control whatever module/plugin/synth has focus. You can lock it to a single device, but normally the controlled device follows focus.
 
I briefly looked at Azlow3's plugin but it didn't solve my problems better than the combination of Automap and ACT.
2015/06/10 14:00:41
azslow3
AndyDavis
The ACT mappings are saved system wide. But, ACT is flaky and sometimes you lose those mappings. I think the phase of the moon comes into play somehow.

My "founds": http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,5.0.html
In general, removing/corrupting one file and keeping another one up to date (manually editing XML or by described "reverse mapping" trick) keeps everything working and stable.
 
AndyDavis
Sorry, I didn't phrase the rotaries bit all that well. I think rotaries are a plus as well. You don't get rotaries when doing ACT, they are more like plain old MIDI CCs.

My Nocturn (unlike Impulse) has no native MIDI mode. But Automap "imitate" MIDI mode in software. And it is possible to say there that encoders are endless. May be that imitation works with Impulse as well, I do not have it to test myself.
 
AndyDavis
I briefly looked at Azlow3's plugin but it didn't solve my problems better than the combination of Automap and ACT.

It will be nice to know which problems you have. I am collecting good ideas. Even in case you do not have plans to use my controller.
 
@rezab:
I agree with Andy that Automap + "ACT MIDI" is the way to go, at least initially. Once you see that something is not working as you want, you can have a look at my plug-in. But I recommend initially invest an hour or so into reading chapters 20 and 40 in Sonar Reference guide as well as http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,107.0.html so you understand how "ACT MIDI" is working, its possibilities and limitations.
2015/06/11 09:20:33
AndyDavis
@azlow3
I have two issues with your plugin:
1. Unfortunately, the first is that it is an incredibly powerful tool for turning inputs into useful controls for parameters. It's very deep. This interacts with a 'bug' in my mental makeup where I love to fiddle with settings and knobs, get it all working just so, and then go to bed because it's way too late to be making music. I can't see this one being surmountable. Your plugin is supposed to be deep and powerful, I need simple and transparent.
 
2. Assuming #1 weren't true, I probably would not use a closed source plugin from a single developer.
 
 
2015/06/11 12:00:28
azslow3
Thank you for the explanation!
 
About (1). I completely agree with you. I have the same problem with that plug-in... I could just play piano (and other instruments around) all the time I am programming it.
 
About (2). You (and other) do this all the time, just without realizing that... I bet fixing most ACT related problems in Sonar will take just several hours (some of the minutes) for the person who has originally written the code. That has not happened since many years. So the only logical explanation is the person is left long time ago, may be he was not even employed by CW. CW has not developed any hardware controllers, they have tried to cooperated with Peavey, Roland, may be Mackie. We do not know who was contracted to write that plug-ins and under which conditions. And finally, when someone is using outdated devices (like Alphatrack), they are using closed source plug-ins with zero(!) developers behind...
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