• SONAR
  • Cakewalk Concrete Limiter--anyone using it? Tips? (p.4)
2018/03/24 22:23:13
Gmichaelhall
cliffr
Steev
 


Well, I didn't classify it as a compressor, nor am I a novice or naive. It's a limiter, and the threshold slider controls the level at which compression begins to kick in.

 
I said I found calling it a gain control puzzling. Because ... well it's not a gain control.
I understand how you're talking about using it, which may be cool, but doesn't make it a gain or volume control.  Yes you may use it to apply some gain, but there are other effects there, namely limiting and compression, which you are obviously aware of and taking advantage of in the scenarios you describe.
 
However, to call it a gain or volume control, or use instead of a gain or volume control, it isn't, it's a limiter and functions quite differently. Therefore, to use it as, and call it a volume control or gain control, it's quite correct to call it a "pseudo gain control". I really don't understand why that seems to get such a reaction.


Very contradictive statement Cliffr. 1st paragraph say it's not classified as a compressor, 2sd paragraph you claim, ah, lemme copy and paste to quote a quote "namely limiting and compression".
 I'll try once more to attempt to clear the confusion and try to explain why using Concrete Limiter is much better and easier to make a track “stand out in the mix”  to use than simply cranking up the channel’s trim/Gain control.
 
The very differences you are misunderstanding are gain STAGE not gain CONTROL.
>>>Snip

 
No, not contradictive at all.
Limiting and gain reduction are compression by definition. I didn't label it as a compressor, because it's not, it's a limiter. No matter how ancy nancy you want to get about terms and definitions, when you apply gain, limiting, gain reductions, dependent on some threshold, you are compressing the dynamics of the signal. Fact, call it what you want. I'm not misunderstanding anything here.
 
Somebody said "I like to use the concrete limiter as a gain control". Then pointed to a video titled "Using the concrete limiter as a Volume Control".
 
I was pointing out, that it's not a "Gain Control". Or a Volume Control. In that context it's a "pseudo gain control".
 
 
Steev
 

The CONCRETE LIMITER DOESN'T COMPRESS ANYTHING!, ZIP NADA! It just makes everything LOUDER from subtle loudness to full tilt boogie ZERO DYNAMICS where everything is heard at the same MAXIMUM VOLUME.
 And Concrete Limiter is great for full tilt boogie ZERO DYNAMICS mixes as well for anything used in elevators, shopping malls, dance halls, and jamming down the street listening to yer iPhone as well, and with amazing transparency.
 Hense the name Concrete Limiter, or generically called a “Brick Wall Limiter” where and when pushed hard, the wave form loses all dynamic peaks, dips, and valleys, and looks like a solid concrete brick wall.


Tada, when the wave from loses all dynamic peaks, dips, and valleys - guess what. It's been compressed. Maybe not the SAME type of compression that you are getting from what you label as a compressor. But it's compressed. Anything that squashes one part of a signal and not others, is compressing the signal. Fact.
 
Concrete limiter is NOT a gain control, and it's NOT a volume control, it has OTHER effects, which is what I was pointing out. And yes, when the threshold is reached, limiting and gain reduction kick in. The signal dynamics are altered. Quote "loses all dynamic peaks and valleys" = Compressed :-)
 
I didn't come to argue, so I'll leave the last word to you. Go for it :-)
 
Apparently disagreeing with ***** is a problem here, my post pointing out how very wrong his understanding of what a limiter is and does, has been taken down. Obviously to reinforce a fragile ego over having a dialogue pertaining to facts. Be that as it may, it does not change the fact that the information provided in this thread is by and large incorrect and it is also a damned shame to uncover such a cliquey insecure support system is encouraging bad info with little regard for the younger and new to audio participants coming in here for understanding. Really poor showing, but I get it, in the day and age of grumpy old people intent on controlling everything in their reach, dare not disagree with the dinosaurs. Weak as.
2018/03/25 01:19:01
BRainbow
I find it very helpful and place it in the ProChannel of any and all tracks and buses that are in danger of clipping.  But I never use it for Mastering or any serious signal processing. I set the threshold between -.3 and -.3.5, depending on the situation.  For mastering I use iZotope compression and limiting plug-ins and/or those in Soundforge (which has its own iZotope Mastering Bundle).
2018/03/25 09:50:26
Steev
 
Gmichaelhall
  "Apparently disagreeing with ***** is a problem here, my post pointing out how very wrong his understanding of what a limiter is and does, has been taken down. Obviously to reinforce a fragile ego over having a dialogue pertaining to facts. Be that as it may, it does not change the fact that the information provided in this thread is by and large incorrect and it is also a damned shame to uncover such a cliquey insecure support system is encouraging bad info with little regard for the younger and new to audio participants coming in here for understanding. Really poor showing, but I get it, in the day and age of grumpy old people intent on controlling everything in their reach, dare not disagree with the dinosaurs. Weak as."
 
 
AHH HHAHAHAHAHHAHHAA!
PRICELESS! Now this is maybe weak, but the perfect example of the Pot calling the Kettle black!
 OMG, I know you were trying to be insulting that is FreAk’iN nothing short of HILARIOUS in ways you couldn’t possibly understand!
 
Suitable for framing and hanging on the wall of Delirium Studio, my students and clients will surely get a kick out of that for weeks to come.
Thanks for that.
And what do YOU do for a living?? Lemme guess, does it have something to do with trying to get the family cat to run into the walls with a laser pointer??? Maybe aspiring to be a career team writer for the POTUS on Twitter???? Or perhaps practicing for trying to produce a knock off series of Dr. Phil?????
 
HAHAHAHAHAHHAH!
“You can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead” ~ John Cleese? Mayhap, but for sure it’s pure Monty Python….
I shall now unsubscribe from this thread before it gets the shutdown lock. Bye, bye…
Steev  has left the thread..
2018/03/25 11:53:18
rodreb
I love the Concrete Limiter! I always use it as my final limiter on my 2 bus. I set it so it averages around 2 to 4 db of limiting and let peaks fall where they may. Sometimes there might be a peak or two (typically tom fills) that may hit up to 5 db of limiting but, average around 2 to 4 db. I have several other limiters, Sonnox, Waves, etc. but, for me, the Concrete Limiter is the best. It does something I really like to the low end. 
2018/03/25 13:06:58
John
It is great to have members speak their minds. We hosts applaud that. What is not OK is any attacks on fellow members. Nor is it OK to attack the attacker. If a member posts an attack do not respond in kind make a ticket and let a host handle it. We can often solve a situation with an admonition. If that is ineffective then we can ban a member and delete the offending post. 
 
Brought to you by your local forum member.   
2018/03/25 13:58:05
pwalpwal
come on guys, a limiter is a type of compressor, do your homework
2018/03/25 17:24:05
LLyons
It works well on a single channel - good for letting low level through and handling mid to high transients. Use sparingly (few tracks), it can help you fit everything into the mix master buss. I prefer not to squish everything with it, Dynamics breath life and soul into a mix, to me.
2018/03/26 01:21:11
kevinwal
Great info in this thread, thanks to all for chiming in!
2018/03/26 02:44:09
cliffr
Steev
 
Gmichaelhall
  "Apparently disagreeing with ***** is a problem here, my post pointing out how very wrong his understanding of what a limiter is and does, has been taken down. Obviously to reinforce a fragile ego over having a dialogue pertaining to facts. Be that as it may, it does not change the fact that the information provided in this thread is by and large incorrect and it is also a damned shame to uncover such a cliquey insecure support system is encouraging bad info with little regard for the younger and new to audio participants coming in here for understanding. Really poor showing, but I get it, in the day and age of grumpy old people intent on controlling everything in their reach, dare not disagree with the dinosaurs. Weak as."
 
 
AHH HHAHAHAHAHHAHHAA!
PRICELESS! Now this is maybe weak, but the perfect example of the Pot calling the Kettle black!
 OMG, I know you were trying to be insulting that is FreAk’iN nothing short of HILARIOUS in ways you couldn’t possibly understand!
 
Suitable for framing and hanging on the wall of Delirium Studio, my students and clients will surely get a kick out of that for weeks to come.
Thanks for that.
And what do YOU do for a living?? Lemme guess, does it have something to do with trying to get the family cat to run into the walls with a laser pointer??? Maybe aspiring to be a career team writer for the POTUS on Twitter???? Or perhaps practicing for trying to produce a knock off series of Dr. Phil?????
 
HAHAHAHAHAHHAH!
“You can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead” ~ John Cleese? Mayhap, but for sure it’s pure Monty Python….
I shall now unsubscribe from this thread before it gets the shutdown lock. Bye, bye…
Steev  has left the thread..




Oh Steev, what I don't understand is why you have to be so reactionary, condescending, amongst other things. This is the exact reason I seldom visit these forums any more.
2018/03/26 05:13:57
Gmichaelhall
John
It is great to have members speak their minds. We hosts applaud that. What is not OK is any attacks on fellow members. Nor is it OK to attack the attacker. If a member posts an attack do not respond in kind make a ticket and let a host handle it. We can often solve a situation with an admonition. If that is ineffective then we can ban a member and delete the offending post. 
 
Brought to you by your local forum member.   
Thank you. ✌️ I never mind anyone contesting any OPINIONS I may have but when a member posts completely ERRONEOUS technical information in a patronising and condescending manner as if to assert bad info as fact, I believe they need to be called up on it, if only for the sake of the the historical integrity of the thread. Perhaps not, any one with any real professional experience would immediately spot the amateurish presentation of pretty bad information. This is not a contest, audio production is one of the few occupations or endeavours anyone can challenge themselves with, knowing that the learning growing and expanding never stops, and that's half the joy [and misery] of it all. While I have not been a very active member of this forum through my years in professional music, the collapse of Cakewalk and the eventuations stemming from this are of great interest to. It's good to see that moderators are on deck and keeping an eye out and hopefully as long as everything is civil and moving towards expanding on truth, gaining sharing knowledge nothing as silly as mistaking a limiter for anything but the compressor it is, won't bruise the ego of the passive aggressive types who are more concerned with who is right versus what is right. It's never too late in life to learn, or at least it shouldnt
Warm regards and peace to all. ✌️
© 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1

Use My Existing Forum Account

Use My Social Media Account