Anderton
Before anyone says "look over there," here's how the above relates to the OP. The concern is whether the subscription [sic] model with a monthly release schedule affects reliability negatively. Downloading a monthly update is optional, so if you feel that downloading monthly patches leads to less reliability, download them when you feel any bugs that affect your workflow have been fixed (and roll back if they haven't).

Here's the crux of my problem: every release except Braintree (and maybe Braintree too - I just don't remember) has had some annoying bug that I've wanted to see resolved. In the first release, it was the Piano Roll continually needing to be resized for me to be able to see the note area. In the third one, it was drum maps dropping notes sporadically. In the fourth one, it was the MIDI engine triggering weird things in PLAY. This time, it was the drum maps not working after I load them, plus the MIDI/PLAY thing is still weird (despite what I thought earlier in this thread). And these are all new problems introduced since X3. That's what's truly concerning. It keeps us on the treadmill of hoping for a new update to get new fixes, only to get new problems.
 

Or download quarterly, or yearly, or when there's a lunar eclipse, or whatever. (Granted there is no option to download bug fixes a la carte, but that didn't exist under the old model either - when you applied a patch, you applied the entire patch. So there's no difference there in terms of "choosing" your stability.)

No, but I don't ever recall a Cakewalk patch making things worse before the Platinum days. Not saying it didn't happen, but I never experienced it. Back then, it was clear that every update (between major versions) was entirely geared to fixing problems. Now, updates are partly about fixing problems, and partly about adding new things. I believe that lack of focus has been slightly detrimental so far, and I hope they find a way to solve that. I would like the monthly release cycle to continue; I'm just concerned that it is coming at a cost that is on the borderline of acceptability to me.

Kylotan
Let's not be dismissive here - in the time between last night, when I hit the drum map problem, and today, when a random forum post gave me a workaround, Sonar was unusable for me. Sure, I could load it up, and I could create a new project. But I couldn't do any work on any of my existing projects, because the drums no longer played back. If a key feature is broken then the whole program is essentially broken for anybody who relies on that feature.

 
Fair enough, although wouldn't it have been possible to re-assign the outs? I don't know, I hardly ever use drum maps so I'm not aware of the limitations. The few times I've used them, they did what I wanted them to do.
 

kylotan

AndertonThere was one person in the forums (sorry, I forget who) who didn't upgrade to Cambridge because he read all the "horror stories" but then someone (mudgel, maybe?) pointed out how easy it was to roll back. So he upgraded and didn't have any problems. But all that time, he didn't take advantage of the new features because others (who in many cases had system-specific bugs) scared him off.

 
And the flip side of that is that sometimes we're having to choose between features and usability instead of usability going up incrementally as we'd expect from increasingly mature software.

 
Also true, but I'm pretty sure some people, if given a choice between VocalSync and Mix Recall or a particular bug fix for a feature they rarely use, would choose VocalSync and Mix Recall. Again, it's all about tradeoffs.
 

kylotan

AndertonLook at the Drum Replacer. Several threads were started about how great it is. The threads that were started about problems have almost all been solved because the issues were trivial or pilot error. And there have been requests for additional features. Too bad you'll have to wait a year for them to be implemented...no, wait. It may only be a month or two. My bad.

I'm aware that I've made my position on this clear to you several times, but with all due respect to the work you and others have put in to the new features and content, it is worth almost nothing to me, personally. I have used literally none of the features or content on this page - http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/Whats-New - and don't see that changing much in the future (maybe Mix Recall will come in handy in a couple of months, and I might use the Drum Replacer next year). What I want is stability (which we're getting, thanks devs), and feature reliability (which ebbs and flows like the tides). I don't mind new features - some of these will be useful to me one day - but I'd be more impressed if we got the Step Sequencer and Matrix View working well. Or if vertically selecting a bunch of clips didn't seem to randomly select other clips. Or little things like stopping the Piano Roll showing 6/8 on the grid as if it was 3/4.

The unfortunately reality is regardless of what you, I, or anyone else prefers, both needs have to be satisfied. So Cakewalk is trying to strike a balance of bug fixes for existing users, coupled with new features to stay competitive and not only provide useful functions for existing users, but attract new users. Obviously if you don't play electric guitar, you'll never use the CA-X amps - yet those people who do play guitar find them valuable. VocalSync will never matter if you do only orchestral work with MIDI instruments...Mix Recall may seem pointless until you have to run off a bunch of different mixes quickly for a producer, or different remixes for the dance market - then it becomes sufficient reason to upgrade in itself. And so on.
 
Cakewalk prioritized bug fixes and stability between X3 and Platinum. For some users, this was exactly what they wanted and they were very glad to upgrade. For others, they didn't see enough shiny new features and didn't upgrade. Balance, tradeoffs...I don't have a solution, but I truly believe Cakewalk spends a lot of effort trying to achieve the right balance and tradeoffs for the greatest percentage of the user base, and as far as I can tell that's the only solution available to the company.

> but I don't ever recall a Cakewalk patch making things worse before the Platinum days. Not saying it didn't happen, but I never experienced it. 
 
To be fair there have been regression bugs in every single version of Sonar X and Sonar Platinum Inc service releases (not abnormal in any software).

Kylotan
I don't ever recall a Cakewalk patch making things worse before the Platinum days. Not saying it didn't happen, but I never experienced it. Back then, it was clear that every update (between major versions) was entirely geared to fixing problems. Now, updates are partly about fixing problems, and partly about adding new things. I believe that lack of focus has been slightly detrimental so far, and I hope they find a way to solve that. I would like the monthly release cycle to continue; I'm just concerned that it is coming at a cost that is on the borderline of acceptability to me.

There were definitely cases where a patch made things worse prior to Platinum, but maybe you didn't experience them because you don't use loops or video a lot But I get your general point and won't quibble. However, the major version updates - which did add new features - definitely caused problems, which is why the patches were needed.
 
The difference is now the errors that accumulate during a major update show up sooner, because the individual elements of the update show up sooner. However, to be fair they also get fixed faster because there's not the deluge of bugs that are queued up with a major release, which can take months to process.
 
It's possible the issues you've had with the first releases are more about being unlucky than anything else, and my lack of issues is about being lucky because I'm not dependent on the same things. I push SONAR really hard in a variety of project types, but haven't had any showstoppers, and hardly even any hiccups (the worst so far was when I deleted a set of IRs and opened a project where REmatrix was looking for them, although the error message in some indecipherable character set was amusing in its own way).
 
We'll see what the future brings. I think Cakewalk has done a really good job given that the web site, the method of distribution, the store, the update model, and the distributing/marketing has changed completely in a year. We're four releases into the membership program and I suspect there will be continued progress in the next eight months, given that a lot of infrastructure is now in place and there's a cadence developing.  
 
Meanwhile, as I'm sure you know I appreciate your comments, and wish everyone else would dialog on at least the same level. You expressed concerns, and I've presented information which I think addresses those concerns. Obviously I can't provide definite answers because I can't time travel ahead to 2016 and find out how this played out...especially because the time machine update isn't slated until 2017.
 

Sorry for the intrusion, but what is the workaround for the Drum Map problem?
 
I experienced it yesterday and at the moment, the only workaround I can think of is to re-route the output directly to the VSTi

Kylotan
Here's the crux of my problem: every release except Braintree (and maybe Braintree too - I just don't remember) has had some annoying bug that I've wanted to see resolved. In the first release, it was the Piano Roll continually needing to be resized for me to be able to see the note area. In the third one, it was drum maps dropping notes sporadically. In the fourth one, it was the MIDI engine triggering weird things in PLAY. This time, it was the drum maps not working after I load them, plus the MIDI/PLAY thing is still weird (despite what I thought earlier in this thread). And these are all new problems introduced since X3. That's what's truly concerning. It keeps us on the treadmill of hoping for a new update to get new fixes, only to get new problems.
No, but I don't ever recall a Cakewalk patch making things worse before the Platinum days. Not saying it didn't happen, but I never experienced it. Back then, it was clear that every update (between major versions) was entirely geared to fixing problems. Now, updates are partly about fixing problems, and partly about adding new things. I believe that lack of focus has been slightly detrimental so far, and I hope they find a way to solve that. I would like the monthly release cycle to continue; I'm just concerned that it is coming at a cost that is on the borderline of acceptability to me.

 
I'm sorry this is inaccurate on several counts. 
 
- Every prior release from X3 and earlier (as long as I've been at Cakewalk) always had a mix of both bug fixes AND incremental features. Only the first point release typically addressed emergency fixes.
 
- Adding new features doesn't necessarily impact other features or create bugs in other features. Its pretty rare when that happens. (Ironically one of the drum map bugs that were in the original release was indeed caused by the new MIDI event buses feature that we did for VSL compatibility)
 
- The only new feature in Everett is Drum Replacer. That is very far removed from everything else in SONAR except for ARA so it would have zero impact on other bugs. The drum maps issue that started this whole topic has absolutely *nothing* to do with any new features in Everett. Its most likely a side effect of one of the drum map fixes itself. 
 
- We have been actively working on improving drum maps, fixing several very longstanding issues that existed in X3 and earlier. You apparently haven't noticed any of those fixes but many others have. 
 
I fail to see the reason for all the negativity and speculation in this thread based on an issue in *one* sub feature. I understand your workflow is impacted but there is a simple workaround AND a rollback feature. I've said that its unfortunate that this issue did crop up and that we would fix it. Its not quite as unreasonable as you make it out to be. 

Small tangent -
 

Anderton
Obviously if you don't play electric guitar, you'll never use the CA-X amps

I used one on a vocal on a recent mix. The band, and most importantly the singer, loved it.

Craig: Releasing "what is ready to go" is one thing for a plugin or completely new feature like the drum replacer, but it's something rather different for bug fixes or other core changes that may interfere with other features. And you can't deny that at least 2 things in the recent updates were released when they were not ready to go - namely the drum map and the control bar fixes. Both were much likely caused by fixing other problems for those features, and both were very easy to detect. For me, this looks like a lack of testing, and none of your arguments rebuts this. But you are right, only time will show if these were rare exceptions or if it is a side effect of the monthly release schedule.

Bristol_Jonesey: Go to the drum map manager and reassign the output for one note to the instrument it is already assigned to.

Anderton
 
"If you are referring to me as a self-gainer, first, Cakewalk does not pay my salary but yes, the future of this company matters to me because I know the staff and I know they are extremely dedicated. I suppose I take the slights and comments about their incompetence personally because I know how much they care about SONAR and their customers, and I feel the criticisms about Cakewalk not knowing what they're doing are totally unjustified."
 
Craig, the topic of your Cakewalk involvement has come up in a few threads in the past. I'd like you to comment on the statement you made, above.
 
One would think from this statement that you make no financial gains from Cakewalk. Does this actually mean that you publish a monthly e-zine for Sonar and develop tons of content and don't get paid for your work? I'm sorry man but I can't believe you do all of this from the goodness of your heart. If you do all of this, and put up with pesky forum users you deserve a medal. If fact, we should start a fund so that you can get paid for all the work you do.
 
If I'm wrong, I profusely apologize, but your involvement in all things Cake is pretty nebulous.

Come on now. That's rude, basically. Craig's been contributing to this forum, and championing Sonar in the print press and all over the web, since the year dot. Sure, he's got a closer interest in the thing professionally now, but what he says and how he says it hasn't changed at all.