I often fumble around with MIDI quantizing, and end up either playing the part again or editing notes by hand (so many notes!). I know I have a lot to learn, too.
 
But for now I have a question that relates to this thread: Once I apply Quantize to an entire track, is it even possible to nudge individual notes, or will the quantize setting cause Sonar to ignore the manual editing on playback? Sometimes it seems as if that's what's happening, as I edit and edit and edit and it sounds different, but not better.

Well I'm not sure if there's another Quantize option that will continue to Quantize after the fact (like what you're describing as potentially happening), but what I do (select a clip or a section of notes, or a whole track), then Process -> Quantize... That's a one time thing, and you can then go in and adjust the notes manually after the quantizing is done.

Larry, if you're talking Midi then yes, you can always go back in and nudge away afterwards. All quantizing does is move the notes you've selected to land on the grid - position determined by the settings.
 
 
 
 

It would be nice if Sonar featured non-destructive groove "layers" on each MIDI track so that you could apply quantize and swing settings to the whole track without actually moving any of the notes. This would come in handy, for example, when you want to apply a certain swing value to a track without having to apply it to all new MIDI that you insert on the track. Currently you would have to memorize or make a note of the swing setting of the track in order to quantize new MIDI to it. A single swing knob for each track would be great.

polarbear
Well I'm not sure if there's another Quantize option that will continue to Quantize after the fact (like what you're describing as potentially happening), but what I do (select a clip or a section of notes, or a whole track), then Process -> Quantize... That's a one time thing, and you can then go in and adjust the notes manually after the quantizing is done.

Bristol_Jonesey
Larry, if you're talking Midi then yes, you can always go back in and nudge away afterwards. All quantizing does is move the notes you've selected to land on the grid - position determined by the settings.
 

So if I'm reading you guys correctly, "Quantize" is a one-time, destructive process? Does that mean I can delete the effect after using it, and the quantization will remain? If I can nudge MIDI notes on a quantized track, that's what it sounds like to me. (Note I am talking about using the FX bin to quantize an entire track.)

Along with sharke, I would say usually I don't just use one setting.  Some phrases are triplets and need 1/4T or 1/8T or 1/16T.  Also, I may quantize a section to 1/16 but then go back and re-quantize parts to 1/8.  If I was not playing especially tight, I may have to move some notes manually.
 
I don't know how much music theory you have, but it does help if you can recognize what should be triplet 8ths, what should be sixteenths, etc.  If you don't have music theory, you can still get that by experience.
 
I would say that if it sounds too mechanical, then try swing.  If it just sounds wrong, swing won't help.  The only time I use swing is on something like 1/16th hi-hats or tambourines or shakers that are sounding too stiff.  In those cases, I set the swing to somewhere between 52 and 56%, with lower usually being better.  When you go to 60% or higher, you start to change the rhythm from duple (double) to triple. You don't want it to sound like it is swinging; you just don't want it to sound robotic.
 
All that said, you can use swing at 66% to change from a straight 8th to a triplet (swing feel) but I don't do that.  If I want a triplet rhythm, I record it that way.

I guess it's dumb to think that one setting would work for an entire track -- although with drums it kind of does. So I'll have to start looking at cutting up certain tracks and working on the individual clips separately.
 
Also, Konradh, if you were addressing me, I've played in bands for decades, but I have no formal training, so I don't always know the right words, but I usually can figure out the concepts. In the days when I ran a commercial studio we used to say the the rhythm section came from the garage, while the strings and brass came from the university. Somehow, they managed to make music together.

So, can I quantize a whole audio track at once after the fact, or do I need to input quantize when recording? I'm speaking of a bass line atm.......
 
sorry if this is bad form, but I guess you'll let me know. It's just a quick question that doesn't seem to deserve a thread....

I'm glad Konrad mentioned the triplet timing. I read this thread earlier but could not reply and I was surprised that the first reply did not recommend this to the OP. My guess is this is exactly what is trashing certain songs. As musicians we know how to play a shuffle but we often have no clue to why it's different. 
 I soon learned about it with my first drum machine. If you called up certain patterns the division was in 12 parts instead of 16 or 8.  The blues and a lot of country use the shuffle or triplet timing. A large chunk of tracks I work on require triplet quantizing. On a 4/4 grid they will show as 1/3 of the way off the line. 
Quantizing drums 100% will make them sound like a robot. You need to understand WHAT needs to be on the grid and what can be pushed around. I keep the kick and hi hats pretty much bang on but the snare seems to work best a hair ahead of the beat.

Hey, Larry, first of all there was nothing dumb about your approach or thoughts.  I have had better luck quantizing in sections or phrases, but it all depends on the kind of music you make.
 
And as far as formal training goes, I have found it helpful but the producer who taught me everything I know about studios (and still knew 20x more than me) and who had a dozen gold records had no knowledge of formal music theory.  And Sir Paul McCartney can't read music, and he is the most successful songwriter of all time.  So, while theory can help shortcut things once in a while, I personally don't think it is required to make great music!   I hope you get this all sorted.
 
PS I love that quote about the garage and the university.  That's great.