• SONAR
  • What's the best way to humanize MIDI nowadays?
2015/05/23 10:09:43
g_randybrown
I remember there was a CAL script ages ago but I wasn't impressed so much back then and have been painstakingly doing it by hand since.
Just wondering if the script has improved since then or if I need to go with something like this (or something else maybe)?
http://www.midi-plugins.de/mplug/mplug-hum.html
Thanks very much,
Randy
2015/05/23 11:29:46
bitflipper
The best way to humanize MIDI nowadays is the same method it's always been: let a human enter the data in the first place.
 
Seriously. Even if you're not a great keyboardist you can still enter most things via a MIDI keyboard: drums & percussion, synth leads, strings, sound effects - all can be played live on a keyboard. If you screw up too badly, you can always edit your hand-entered MIDI later.
 
I won't say I'm above occasionally dropping notes into the PRV with a mouse, but I never do it with quantization on. If that added snare hit doesn't happen to fall right on the line, I usually don't care unless it sounds weird on playback. 
 
Quantization is the enemy. Scripts and tools for "humanization" blindly apply random timing changes to quantized data. First of all, real human variations are not random. Second, if the data hadn't been quantized to begin with, then "humanization" wouldn't be necessary.
 
 
2015/05/23 11:53:42
slartabartfast
+1
 
The reason we do not have audio books recorded by Siri, and instead pay voice actors, is that the expression/humanization of an understanding of the material conveyed via the voice is the source of the charm of recitation. Highly quantized music is like reading without inflection, emphasis or or change of pace. The challenge of musicianship is not to hit the right note at time indicated on the score, but to use the subtle variations from that fully quantized rendition to add (or restore) a human interpretation. A random variation does not sound like a human playing, it sounds like a human playing badly.
 
That said, it is not impossible for a computerized system to provide something better than random. Swing quantization is a relatively common example, and fitting parts to a human master rythym track is another. It is definitely possible to improve on simple random quantization with algorithms that will fit in a VST plugin. It may even be possible to train an AI to produce an interpretation that matches the style of a particular musician. If you are a composer just trying to sketch a draft or demo a good "humanize" function may save time and produce an acceptable rendition. But if you are actually making music, no matter how good the algorithm, it will still not be your music.
2015/05/23 11:57:54
BobF
OK, so playing in is best.  I actually am playing most of my stuff these days, BUT, if you're going to go the non-human humanization route, what is the best tool these days?
2015/05/23 12:58:26
g_randybrown
Well I do play in a lot of parts (and then tweak later...hey, I'm a drummer so I have an excuse) but when layering many orchestral tracks I copy/paste the parts and adjust accordingly. 
That said, I watched a series of MIDI orchestration vids and the guy was using a "humanize" plug-in in another DAW and he got great results (especially with percussion, brass and stac/spic celli) as the interface had several parameters to dial in.
Hats off to those of you that play well enough but I ain't no keyboard player ...so if anyone has a suggestion (other than buying another DAW) I'd appreciate it.
Thanks again,
Randy
2015/05/23 13:55:23
slartabartfast
MIDI actually permits those of us with ten thumbs to do a great deal of expression using text keyboard entry--programming MIDI by hand. It is tedious to the extreme, but every parameter that can be entered via a keyboard MIDI controller can be done without one. Given enough time you can probably even learn to previsualize (preauralize?)  the effects and avoid some of the constant tweak-play-tweak that makes this so slow. On the other hand learning to play a couple of dozen real world instruments takes a while too. A MIDI keyboard is not the best way to do 'drums,' let alone 'wind instrument' effects in any case, but timing and note length are pretty easy to control in a MIDI editor.
 
If you apply a humanize algorithm individually to a large number of parts in an ensemble it might sound pretty fuzzy. If you line up a bunch of parts to a human tempo map, you can still get most of what you are looking for with better control. 
 
 
2015/05/23 14:14:36
mettelus
Isn't there a "swing" function in the inspector on a MIDI track? There a a few tools in that area that might help.
2015/05/23 14:15:42
g_randybrown
If you apply a humanize algorithm individually to a large number of parts in an ensemble it might sound pretty fuzzy.
Agreed, but if we're talking about slight variations (a few milliseconds) of the various similar instruments it sounds more realistic and IMO can make the layers sound fatter. No doubt one would need to go back and make adjustments here and there but it would be a real time saver for me to utilize a tool like this. 
 
If you line up a bunch of parts to a human tempo map, you can still get most of what you are looking for with better control. 
I'm not sure what you mean by "a human tempo map" but I do spend time making adjustments in the tempo view.
Thanks again,
Randy
2015/05/23 14:18:17
g_randybrown
mettelus
Isn't there a "swing" function in the inspector on a MIDI track? There a a few tools in that area that might help.

Maybe I should look into that again but when I tried it long ago all it seemed to do was...well...give it a swing feel which is not what I'm looking for.
Thanks,
Randy
2015/05/23 14:43:08
konradh
The "swing" in quantize is good for making hi-hats and shakers sound less mechanical but you have to set the percent just a little off 50%, like 52% or 54%.  60% and more starts sounding "swingy" to me, but smaller numbers avoid that mechanical 80s synth-rcok sound.
 
Just an observation, and this is totally a matter of style.  In the past, we would record over and over again until people got the parts perfect.  Then as soon as drum machines arrived, people started complaining they were "too on-beat" and started trying to make them sound like the humans.
 
Personally, I quantize or tweak almost everything (and then shift things a few ticks for doubling, etc., when needed), but I have a very unusual style of music. For Roots Rock or Americana or even Rolling Stones type rock, what I do would sound too stiff.
 
There is a HUMANIZE.CAL program you might try.
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