• SONAR
  • What's the best way to humanize MIDI nowadays? (p.2)
2015/05/23 15:00:50
jimkleban
Depends on what tracks in what songs need the humanization, no?  So, drumming is one thing and the humanization there is both velocity and timing... humanization on synths might just be timing or maybe you want that SPOT ON.....
 
I agree with everyone else.... it is easier and sounds best if the humanization is created in the first place and then those parts that need more accuracy, quantization might do the trick...  if you can't play the feeling, no math is going to give you the same feeling that you can create on your end.
 
Just my 2 cents,
Jim
2015/05/23 15:42:59
...wicked
Yah. Groove quantize can get you pretty far along, but I prefer to do something similar to what Bitflipper does. I hand enter the data, only quantize the worst offenders and rarely quantize things at 100%. Even the dance music I write, I leave it a little loose.
 
Hand editing it always the best way to me, that way there really IS something unique happening most of the time. The other big trick to do is to put in small tempo changes near the transitions of the song. slowing a song down 2bpm 2 measures before the chorus, then another bpm one measure before the chorus, and then increasing tempo 4pm at the chorus will really make that transition pop. (it is, after all, a 7 bpm change). Especially when pared with a good drum fill or another cool part that heralds it in. 
 
 
2015/05/23 15:46:49
g_randybrown
I don't think I explained my intention very well.
All I want to do is to randomly change the start time of the notes BUT only by a few milliseconds (like real players do in a live performance).
That's all...I would never randomize velocity or anything else, just the start times (by a frog hair).
I've just learned there is indeed a tool in Sonar that does this (right click clip/insert effect/midi fx/CW fx/quantize/random) but I won't get a chance to mess with it until Monday.
Thanks y'all,
Randy
2015/05/23 15:49:26
g_randybrown
The other big trick to do is to put in small tempo changes near the transitions of the song. slowing a song down 2bpm 2 measures before the chorus, then another bpm one measure before the chorus, and then increasing tempo 4pm at the chorus will really make that transition pop.
Yessir, that's what I meant when I said I use the tempo view.
2015/05/23 16:14:27
sharke
Best way to do it if you have limited keyboard skills but a decent sense of rhythm/dynamics is to hammer out the rhythm on the keyboard without paying attention to pitch. Just bash it out on whatever keys you like, then go into the PRV and correct the pitches while holding down SHIFT to preserve the timing. If the timing's off then just use the timing tool to nudge the notes toward your required quantize value without them being tick perfect. I don't know why anyone would use any kind of script or humanize tool when the above works perfectly and gives flawless results.
2015/05/23 18:25:44
jih64
sharke
Best way to do it if you have limited keyboard skills but a decent sense of rhythm/dynamics is to hammer out the rhythm on the keyboard without paying attention to pitch. Just bash it out on whatever keys you like, then go into the PRV and correct the pitches while holding down SHIFT to preserve the timing. If the timing's off then just use the timing tool to nudge the notes toward your required quantize value without them being tick perfect. I don't know why anyone would use any kind of script or humanize tool when the above works perfectly and gives flawless results.



lol, that is very interesting, I would never of thought of that, I'm going to give that a whirl. Thanking You kind sir
2015/05/23 19:45:00
sharke
jih64
sharke
Best way to do it if you have limited keyboard skills but a decent sense of rhythm/dynamics is to hammer out the rhythm on the keyboard without paying attention to pitch. Just bash it out on whatever keys you like, then go into the PRV and correct the pitches while holding down SHIFT to preserve the timing. If the timing's off then just use the timing tool to nudge the notes toward your required quantize value without them being tick perfect. I don't know why anyone would use any kind of script or humanize tool when the above works perfectly and gives flawless results.



lol, that is very interesting, I would never of thought of that, I'm going to give that a whirl. Thanking You kind sir




Hope it works out for you! One thing to remember is that you don't have to have chords or melody in mind when you bash out the rhythm - sometimes I will just improvise a groove and then just move the notes up and down until the harmonic element emerges of its own accord. By separating the rhythm and the harmony/melody like this, you end up with things that you would never have created had you played the whole part in real time. 
2015/05/23 19:51:28
slartabartfast
g_randybrown
All I want to do is to randomly change the start time of the notes BUT only by a few milliseconds (like real players do in a live performance).

Except that they don't do that.
 
What real players do is to follow an internal 'groove' (that is demonstrably different than the actual real-time following of the notes of the other players in the ensemble) in a way that makes musical sense. It is impossible for an individual player to play in synchrony to another player on the other side of the stage. The physics of the speed of sound, and the physiology of the nervous system reaction time require that the musician march to his own internal drummer. And that internal drummer is no more random than the guy behind the drums. It is not the error in relating to this internal drummer that makes music human, it is the reliance on it, and the interpretation that it adds to the sound.
2015/05/23 20:01:52
exitthelemming
A company called NTONYX (who became JMT) had a suite of MIDI software programs that could apply timing, articulation, pitch bend and modulation values onto existing MIDI data to imitate a human player. They had hundreds of templates sorted into tempo and target instrument type (e.g. bass, guitar, reeds, brass, strings etc) and with judicious 'tweaking', the results were certainly quite authentic. Some of these templates would actually generate additional MIDI data to replicate strumming or trills, ornamentation etc There was a MIDI plug in version but I could never get this to work satisfactorily within any version of SONAR (32 or 64 bit) As a workaround, you could apply the articulations in one of the NTONYX stand alone programs (say, Style Enhancer V4) save and then import the MIDI into SONAR
 

 
 
2015/05/23 20:12:14
BobF
sharke
Best way to do it if you have limited keyboard skills but a decent sense of rhythm/dynamics is to hammer out the rhythm on the keyboard without paying attention to pitch. Just bash it out on whatever keys you like, then go into the PRV and correct the pitches while holding down SHIFT to preserve the timing. If the timing's off then just use the timing tool to nudge the notes toward your required quantize value without them being tick perfect. I don't know why anyone would use any kind of script or humanize tool when the above works perfectly and gives flawless results.



This is a really cool idea that I plan to put some effort into.  I can think of several ways to apply this.
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