Craig:  look what you started.
 
I figger this thread was not what you expected and more.

John

ampfixer
There has been a shift in the forums. More facts, less fun. Many of the guys that helped me get going have left or been run off. Too much nonsense with changing identities and moderators with agendas.
 
This is still a place where you can learn lots, but it's simply not fun anymore.

Which host has an agenda? 

Here's a list of the best hosts:
http://bedroomproducersbl...vst-host-applications/

YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
Craig:  look what you started.
 
I figger this thread was not what you expected and more.

In the future, I'll be careful not to give props to people for contributing really useful stuff, even though I particularly feel people like kperry and azslow who do actual programming to benefit the community deserve a big pat on the back...as do the people who contribute tips. But I guess forums shouldn't be about tips and helping others. Silly me!

dubdisciple
When it comes to subjects like staff view, it is easy to make unproven broad statements like claims Cakewalk has lost "lots" of customers over a chosen pet issue, or the ever-popular claims of increased sells if cakewalk upgrades/adds/fixes a feature...Unprovable on the best of days without some measurable numbers instead of rhetoric.

Okay, here are some numbers for March 2015.
 
Of the top 10 music software brands, two brands make DAWs with a staff view.
 
Of the Top 10 DAW purchases (based on market share), those with a staff view are made by two companies (and one of them is #10).
 
If you take Pro Tools out of the picture, Ableton has a bigger market share than all DAW companies that include staff view combined...with the caveat that it's not possible to track sales of Logic. However, I suspect that stat would still hold even if Logic was included.

 
There are only two ways to gain market share and grow a business: Attract new users, or convince those who use other products to switch. SONAR 2015 is doing a great job of attracting new users. As to switching, anyone who thinks SONAR having an improved staff view is going to cause people to sell their Macs, ditch Pro Tools, and switch to SONAR is insane. Then again, wasn't it Einstein who said doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity...
 
Attract enough new users to gain enough resources to justify doing something with little (if any) return on investment, in fact probably a negative return on investment, and the odds of improving staff view increase dramatically because including it now might indeed help the bottom line 10 years in the future. This is why no one at Cakewalk is ruling anything out, even though some people claim to know what Cakewalk is or is not planning. They don't.
 
Meanwhile, I assume existing SONAR users would like the company to stay in business, and continue to improve the core program.
 
It's really quite simple.

Anderton
 
,,,and the odds of improving staff view increase dramatically because including it now might indeed help the bottom line 10 years in the future. This is why no one at Cakewalk is ruling anything out, even though some people claim to know what Cakewalk is or is not planning. They don't.

 
So if they had done it 10 years ago they might be reaping the benefits now?  Interesting.  
 

Anderton
 
Of the top 10 music software brands, two brands make DAWs with a staff view.
 
Of the Top 10 DAW purchases (based on market share), those with a staff view are made by two companies (and one of them is #10).
 
If you take Pro Tools out of the picture, Ableton has a bigger market share than all DAW companies that include staff view combined...with the caveat that it's not possible to track sales of Logic. However, I suspect that stat would still hold even if Logic was included.

That's misleading.  You make it sound like few have or care about notation.   Protools, Cubase, Logic and Digital Performer all have excellent staff views.  Presonus purchased Notion and is working on integrating it with Studio One.  These are the serious tools of professionals.  These companies all apparently disagree with your assessment of the profitability of notation.  

What on this earth does Staff View have to do with over all vibe of this forum?
 
I have been a strong supporter of an improved Staff View longer than some that can only seem to talk about it but I'm not so one issue a person that I can't read and post to a thread that isn't about Staff View. Or as here interject it when a thread is posted. 
 
There is a time and a place for every issue. Barging into a thread and interjecting that wish is not all that helpful to the cause. 
 
 

vintagevibe

Anderton
 
,,,and the odds of improving staff view increase dramatically because including it now might indeed help the bottom line 10 years in the future. This is why no one at Cakewalk is ruling anything out, even though some people claim to know what Cakewalk is or is not planning. They don't.

 
So if they had done it 10 years ago they might be reaping the benefits now?  Interesting. 

Highly doubtful. Cakewalk couldn't have afforded to absorb negative ROI then, and it can't now. Which is why I predicated my statement on the assumption of an influx of new users. Perhaps you missed that part, or didn't quite understand it. Besides, the market was following a very different trajectory in 2005. I can only assume you weren't aware of that, either.
 
Besides that's not what I said, and surely you know it . You're deliberately ignoring the qualifiers, which I delineated quite clearly, that are involved in making those kinds of decisions.
 
You also know the company changed management and a whole lot more toward the beginning of 2014.
 
Rhetorical questions are a device for those whose agenda is not getting answer but making a point. Unfortunately your point is so unoriginal and repetitive it has lost any impact or relevance it might have had. Nor have you brought any facts to the table. I have.
 
I feel I've been very patient, but I cannot reason someone out of a position they did not use reason to attain.

vintagevibe
That's misleading.  You make it sound like few have or care about notation.

 
I did no such thing. I gave statistics on the market share and sales of programs that have notation. I would have thought that was obvious, given that I was responding to someone who wanted numbers.
 

Protools, Cubase, Logic and Digital Performer all have excellent staff views.

 
Show me any instance where I have disagreed with that.
 

These are the serious tools of professionals.  These companies all apparently disagree with your assessment of the profitability of notation. 

I did not invent those statistics. The market gave its assessment of the importance of including notation in programs. Your argument is not with me. Your argument is with the consumers who have voted with their dollars, whose purchases have been recorded by industry organizations, and presented in a format that I believe most people can understand.
 
I'm sorry the facts don't fit your view of how things should be, but you're welcome to shoot the messenger if it makes you feel better.

Know what I think?  I think this is a good sign.  S-PlatD must be working well enough for folks that this is all we have to talk about  :)