adjective: condescending

having or showing a feeling of patronizing superiority.
 
 

Sadly, I've now run out of popcorn.

Does this thread go to 11?

Kamikaze

Beepster
 
The Gain label on MIDI tracks controlling velocity is indeed a little misleading and struck me as odd when first learning the program but aside from the label it is a perfectly functional and useful knob to have on a MIDI track. It takes the concept of Gain and gives it a MIDI equivelent as MIDI is merely data... not audio so velocity is the closest thing to controlling the input. It makes sense. There is NO GAIN IN MIDI!!! ONLY IN AUDIO!!! The audio tracks associated with a MIDI synth all have Gain knobs that control Gain because they are audio tracks.
 

Midi CC 7 is the continuous controller number in Midi for controlling MIDI Volume. There is a gain in midi!
 
Say you record a guitarist, and he loves the tone from playing with a certain strength,when you reduced the gain in the console, he would be not happy it you affected this tone just to deal with your gain staging.
 
So to record a Keyboard player and he is happy with his playing and dynamics, and you reduce the gain but being that it's not gain, it's velocity, the tone of the piano, rhodes, synth sound changes. He says 'it sounds quieter to me and a bit different', you reach for the console fader and play it a little higher in the mix, and he says 'it's louder now, but it sounds different?', but you are adamant all you have done is changed the gain, which of course you haven't.
 
This is a bit like changing the input to a guitar amp, than to a console, except we are dealing with a console.
 
As a previous poster said ion the thread, if this trims, what happens to the lowest velocities. A midi drummer would be asking 'where did my ghost notes go?'.
 
 
Simply re-naming the knob 'Velocity trim' would be accurate and save confusion. This has got to be the easiest bug fix to fix that exist hasn't it, just re-naming.
 
 

The easiest fix is to add "Velocity Trim" to the manual and cross-reference to "Gain on MIDI tracks"
 
When something appears super simple on the surface but still goes undone, there is usually an answer other than stubbornness behind the lack of change.  I can think of several approaches that could have been taken to code this (back in the 1900s) that would make this change take a bit to do.
 
There is so much left to do to get Sonar "Tight & Tidy" while delivering new features at the same time.
 
The response to this could have been worded more softly, but really, it's not that big of a deal when you step back 2-300' for a broader perspective.
 
As users that know what the knob does, the best we can do is to help other users understand the way it is.  By doing this, the folks at Ye Olde Pastry Shoppe can stay focused on bigger stuff until the time comes to address bundles of smaller stuff.
 
Really.  A bit of perspective it all it takes to get beyond this.
 
@alewgro - I apologize for my part in making light of your thread.  Sometimes I'm funnier to me than I am to those around me.
 
 

Kamikaze
 adjective: condescending

having or showing a feeling of patronizing superiority.

I think my comments were making the point that perhaps the OP was condescending. I was using sarcasm to make my point.
sarcasm; (Merriam-Webster)
: the use of words that mean the opposite of what you really want to say especially in order to insult someone, to show irritation, or to be funny

When I step back 2-300' I can't even see the offending knob!

Maybe in the meantime, until Cakewalk fixes it, we could ask Panu to update Duckbar so that we can re-label the controls ourselves.

I have to say that learning that this is a issue is a big eye opener for me.
 
I have been expieriencing strange beheaviour including this perceptual bug. I understand the OP completely. This issue will become actual again eventualy unless, I think the issue is adressed properly.
 
I now understand that when I need the gain functionality on my frozen instrument track I need to move it to an audio track.
 
As my projects have both vst instruments and audio I was expieriencing this as a bug. But had no idea how to replicate it. As I normally can not be bothered with testing or replicating bugs I always try to find a fast work around (inserting a plugin, wich is far from ideal and caused me to cuss at the bakers in myself).
 
Thanks to the OP I understand the dynamics of the 'bug'.
 
In the ideal situation a frozen instrument track should have the gain knob functioning as a gain knob (it does nothing with frozen tracks, offcourse thats logical when understanding it is a velocity knob for MIDI velocity. The gain knob should be renamed (I read this to be a lot of effort, just hypotheticaly to minimise reacurrency of this issue.) when in instrument mode (non frozen tracks). When the track is frozen the knob should be invisible (not very ideal) or change the functionality 'copied' from the audio gain knob. 
 
Nonetheless, Thanks everyone and double THNX to the OP. If he hadn't started this thread it would have taken a lot of frustration and wasted time for me to find out all by myself.

Kamikaze
 
adjective: condescending

having or showing a feeling of patronizing superiority.

You may have inadvertently hit on the "best answer" to the "Anyone Else Notice a Shift in this Forum?" thread! So many threads break down into this as of late (if people have any restraint), but this thread came out of the chute on that foot with the thread title. Regardless, you can pretty much bank on this occurring at some point!

mettelus

Kamikaze
adjective: condescending

having or showing a feeling of patronizing superiority.

You may have inadvertently hit on the "best answer" to the "Anyone Else Notice a Shift in this Forum?" thread! So many threads break down into this as of late (if people have any restraint), but this thread came out of the chute on that foot with the thread title. Regardless, you can pretty much bank on this occurring at some point!

The thread was started with this title for good purpose.  It's not like it's something I just noticed and decided to come here and rant.  

I went through good effort to fully document, screenshot, and explain how this "Gain" knob is not controlling "Gain" and gave my reasons for why it SHOULD be a "Gain" knob,  I am a paying customer,  - only to have customer support to come back at me with a one-liner "working as expected".

Part of buying a product is the customer support.  I put the effort in and got no effort back to even justify their reason for not looking into my case!


I feel it was poorly handled and I decided to post what I post.  no regrets.   I'm not going to pretend i'm not a little ticked when I am.