brundlefly
.... I think a Simple Instrument track should have Audio Gain on the audio tab in the Inspector, and MIDI Gain on the MIDI tab, but it has MIDI Gain on both......

someone at cakewalk is asleep at the wheel

alewgro
OK all fair enough, but the bigger topic is - SHOULDN'T the knob be a GAIN knob?

 
That's a clear feature request but my point still stands in #18. If it's mislabelled then that's the actual bug (regardless of what the documentation says). An egg is an egg, a chicken is a chicken.

Well MIDI velocity changes are going to give completely different results than audio "gain" in many cases, aside from the fact that they are limited to an integral range of 0-127. And there is no standard relationship to the MIDI velocity number and the "loudness" of the output between synths or even between patches in a given synth. Many synth patches will change the texture of the sound, add new voices, control filters etc. in response to MIDI velocity changes. This behavior can be very valuable if you want pounding on the keyboard controller to have a different quality than just louder, but if you have recorded the track with the velocity (hence the texture) you intend to produce, and just want the volume louder, changing the MIDI velocity value will fail. It beggars credulity to consider a change in a MIDI velocity value as an application of gain. MIDI velocity is not a signal, or a voltage, or a power. It is a discrete piece of information, like the note number. Would you say that you had applied "gain" to a pitch from a keyboard by hitting D3 instead of C3? MIDI velocity trim (adding a specific value to the recorded note number) makes sense, but I can see no reason to ever call such a procedure "gain."  As Skook notes this is a limitation of the rather silly convenience of an "instrument track" made worse by the deliberately misleading label. I never really noticed this label, since I never use instrument tracks.

That confirms it then. The bug is that it is mislabelled (it doesn't matter what the documentation says). I suggest somebody logs the issue, specifically to do with the label (ONLY).
 
If you want to change the functionality that is an enhancement request, as Scook says it is clearly documented. 

alewgro
If the "Mute Button" acted as a "Solo" button, but documented that way - that's ok?  just because its documented, doesn't make it right OR functional.

I thought this was about a knob located in the same position always labelled as Gain which has two functions, audio trim for audio tracks and velocity trim for instrument and MIDI tracks. Whether it is right or functional, I believe you already received your answer from Cakewalk. This is hardly a showstopper unless you want it to be.

 

scook
 I thought this was about a knob located in the same position always labelled as Gain which has two functions, audio trim for audio tracks and velocity trim for instrument and MIDI tracks. Whether it is right or functional, I believe you already received your answer from Cakewalk. This is hardly a showstopper unless you want it to be.

I agree Cakewalk answered appropriately but they should have commented upon it to make it totally clear.
Regardless he logged the wrong bug.
The best way to proceed is to log a specific issue about the label needing changing, and create an enhancement request. That's my suggestion anyway.

The label issue was reported some time ago. The report was locked by CW http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3097199. Not sure what would be accomplished by reporting it again.

Thanks for the link. Wow I threw it into problem reports and I forgot about that.

Looking at the final post Cakewalk freely admits it's not in their bug tracker. I would say there's everything to be gained to get it into that database and getting a CWBRN and get it queued up rather than out of a box stored in an attic somewhere.

That thread should not have been locked either, it's not fixed, it's reproducible and it's still a live issue (that is JUST the label problem).

I believe I answered this a while ago. There is only one graphic for both track types, which can cause confusion when one doesn't read the help files. The confusion could be reduced by creating a different graphic for MIDI tracks, but for all we know that might not be so easy. It might involve more research and development to implement.
 
The other point of confusion is that the "Gain" isn't really gain anyway - as one might expect on a real mixer. It's more of a pre-mix fader. The real gain is controlled by your interface/sound source output.
 
OAN, The "Master" vs. "Mains" label for the output tracks would be an easy fix.

scook
The label will likely change before the function of the knob. I would suggest looking for another solution to gain staging issues. If the audio gain knob is required, do not use instrument tracks.

Would be nice to be able to rate things "helpful" more than once. Again, SITs take MIDI input, and output Audio... one cannot audio gain MIDI input (only adjust velocity).