• SONAR
  • I Guess Cakewalk Doesn't Know What The Word "GAIN" Means.... (p.9)
2015/05/21 17:01:02
pwalpwal
mettelus
This thread got me all stressed because it made me realize something... none of my guitars have labels on any knobs (seriously... NONE)! How am I supposed to figure them out??? They just "change sound" but nothing to tell me WTH they are doing!

To make matters worse, I mentioned this to a "trusted" friend, and the laughed AT ME (so much for them). They did offer to "try them out and see what they do," yeah right!

I guess I will start simple and put "sugar" and "****e" labels on them and see how that goes.

My house of cards (Uno deck with a couple incomplete pinochle decks thrown in) has come "fluttering down" because of this thread :(

Edit: The forum filter hit was unintentional, but now I can only name every knob "sugar"... Sheesh.

at least "knob" got through
2015/05/21 17:14:34
rabeach
John
rabeach
my understanding of the "gain" control in sonar is it allows for the adjustment of the fader without having to rewrite you fader automation. sort of a pre-fader fader control. it does not behave as a gain control only your pre-amp on your audio card can function that way. 


Wouldn't that be Offset mode? Gain is for adjusting the incoming signal to a track. This can be helpful to prevent overloading an FX. 


yes you are right. i was thinking it was right before the fader but fx and pan are in between it and the fader. 
2015/05/21 17:19:01
AdamGrossmanLG
AT
alewgro
AT
Well, that does it.  This means I con't use SONAR at all.  Gain, Volume and Velocity?  I'm so confused.  Not only that, I think I'll delete all my files since my old songs aren't labeled properly.  Thanks guys (and girls!).
 
@




what a stupid post.  Are you saying that unless something is of utmost urgency we cant post about it?  I never claimed that this was a HUGE deal, did I?
 
I just think its poor customer service to say something is "working as is" but clearly labeled wrong, and on top of that  - no thought process is being given to exactly WHAT that knob should do.

Right now it is acting as a CC# adjustment knob, which is kinda pointless.




 
No, carry on.  Up to 3 pages now and no biggie; in fact a pointless problem according to your own statements.  But don't let it go and carry on with your uber-intelligent posts.  It is just fascinating. 
 
cordially,
 
@
 
 
 




 
 
i didnt write 3 pages... i wrote 1 sentence... the rest is all responses...
 
this is the Howard Stern syndrome... this thread is popular because people love to hate on others - if no one got their rocks off here, no one would be posting here.
2015/05/21 21:50:29
Kamikaze
Beepster
 
The Gain label on MIDI tracks controlling velocity is indeed a little misleading and struck me as odd when first learning the program but aside from the label it is a perfectly functional and useful knob to have on a MIDI track. It takes the concept of Gain and gives it a MIDI equivelent as MIDI is merely data... not audio so velocity is the closest thing to controlling the input. It makes sense. There is NO GAIN IN MIDI!!! ONLY IN AUDIO!!! The audio tracks associated with a MIDI synth all have Gain knobs that control Gain because they are audio tracks.
 


Midi CC 7 is the continuous controller number in Midi for controlling MIDI Volume. There is a gain in midi!
 
Say you record a guitarist, and he loves the tone from playing with a certain strength,when you reduced the gain in the console, he would be not happy it you affected this tone just to deal with your gain staging.
 
So to record a Keyboard player and he is happy with his playing and dynamics, and you reduce the gain but being that it's not gain, it's velocity, the tone of the piano, rhodes, synth sound changes. He says 'it sounds quieter to me and a bit different', you reach for the console fader and play it a little higher in the mix, and he says 'it's louder now, but it sounds different?', but you are adamant all you have done is changed the gain, which of course you haven't.
 
This is a bit like changing the input to a guitar amp, than to a console, except we are dealing with a console.
 
As a previous poster said ion the thread, if this trims, what happens to the lowest velocities. A midi drummer would be asking 'where did my ghost notes go?'.
 
 
Simply re-naming the knob 'Velocity trim' would be accurate and save confusion. This has got to be the easiest bug fix to fix that exist hasn't it, just re-naming.
 
 
2015/05/21 22:52:32
mudgel
alewgro
AT
alewgro
AT
Well, that does it.  This means I con't use SONAR at all.  Gain, Volume and Velocity?  I'm so confused.  Not only that, I think I'll delete all my files since my old songs aren't labeled properly.  Thanks guys (and girls!).
 
@




what a stupid post.  Are you saying that unless something is of utmost urgency we cant post about it?  I never claimed that this was a HUGE deal, did I?
 
I just think its poor customer service to say something is "working as is" but clearly labeled wrong, and on top of that  - no thought process is being given to exactly WHAT that knob should do.

Right now it is acting as a CC# adjustment knob, which is kinda pointless.




 
No, carry on.  Up to 3 pages now and no biggie; in fact a pointless problem according to your own statements.  But don't let it go and carry on with your uber-intelligent posts.  It is just fascinating. 
 
cordially,
 
@
 
 
 




 
 
i didnt write 3 pages... i wrote 1 sentence... the rest is all responses...
 
this is the Howard Stern syndrome... this thread is popular because people love to hate on others - if no one got their rocks off here, no one would be posting here.




"It wasn't me sir. It was the other boy what did it".
 
Aren't you a good boy then.
2015/05/22 00:33:48
Anonymungus!
SEMANTICS !!!
2015/05/22 00:58:52
Kamikaze
mudgel


"It wasn't me sir. It was the other boy what did it".
 
Aren't you a good boy then.




 
That's quite condescending Mudgel. Serves no purpose other than to aggravate. I don't think you'd respond well to a comment like that aimed at you.
2015/05/22 04:43:47
lfm
Kamikaze
 
Simply re-naming the knob 'Velocity trim' would be accurate and save confusion. This has got to be the easiest bug fix to fix that exist hasn't it, just re-naming.
 
 




But Vel+ already exist, apart from that knob?
But really, I think fader on strict midi track should work as Vel+ do.
Maybe some setting to either show fader or Vel+ - I remember Reaper has some setting whether control affect midi or audio - since tracks are not dedicated to either.
 
In older Sonar as I remember when selecting a channel on midi track, fader worked as Vel+ do. Otherwise did nothing - so why show it then - it just clutters interface?
 
But then there is confusion when combined instrument track that take midi and deliver audio.
So it need to be named consistently to Gain and affect audio in that case.
 
So to some degree it seems like a patchwork not fully thought through.
Whoever is responsible for design of Sonar, maybe could have a look at it - to make it as intuitive as possible.
For old timers(like me) using midi for a long time, I can find my way, but thinking of newcomers how they perceive Sonar.
2015/05/22 05:01:58
Kamikaze
I do think the knob could serve a better function than velocity trim, but I don't think there's enough interest to have it changed to anything else. Simply renaming it, is such a simple fix
2015/05/22 06:21:37
mudgel
Kamikaze
mudgel


"It wasn't me sir. It was the other boy what did it".
 
Aren't you a good boy then.




 
That's quite condescending Mudgel. Serves no purpose other than to aggravate. I don't think you'd respond well to a comment like that aimed at you.


A bit more sarcastic and tongue in cheek than condescending. I think this thread long ago ceased being something useful.
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