Hi all, I am a new student of midi orchestration (I am using a textbook by Paul Gilreath) and after a lot of shopping around, am thinking about getting the Vienna Standard Edition I Plus bundle to use as my basic orchestra. It is the best-sounding, dry-recorded library which covers all the important articulations for the major solo instruments I've heard. Also, now is a really good time to buy because they are on sale.
 
(In an earlier post I had asked about the new UVI Orchestral Suite, but I now think Vienna is just far superior.)

But I hesitate, even at these very good prices, because I worry about ... drowning in the complexity of yet (sigh) another powerful new (to me) product (I've never used anything from VSL, I've mainly used Kontakt), and about whether it "behaves" well in Sonar (I have Sonar X3 Producer, 16 GB of RAM).

How easy is it to get to grips with the free Vienna Instrument and Ensemble software? I already have so very much to learn about midi orchestration -- its is really daunting for a beginner-- I just don't want any more software, however brilliant, which will take me weeks or months of learning before I can even start using it with any minimal skill. (By the way, I plan to start modestly, trying to write short things for small ensembles before trying anything "epic" with a full virtual symphony. So I maybe don't need to know about every advanced feature).
 
So...are these two software packages  reasonably straightforward to use, or is it a large time investment? I am willing to work to learn something useful, but it is a matter of degree and time, as I have a busy day job and an aging brain.

Just as importantly, do these programs work well in Sonar? I recall seeing somewhere that someone said there were midi routing problem, but can't remember where I saw it.) Anyway, what are your impressions?


I am grateful for any advice.

PM sent...
 
For full VST3 implementation with midi ports you need to buy Sonar Platinum.

Forum member Konrad is a big VSL user. I'm sure he will be around soon to help you.

It's true, Cakewalk only implemented VST3 in Sonar X3 and with the current release has upped the ante by extending the VST3 functions available to a compliant plugin.

Here's a link to a comparison table of what's in each current version.
http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR
Click the link at the bottom of the page to compare the versions.

Well you've come to the right place for advice.
 
I don't use VSL but i do use EWQLSO Platinum and it performs superbly within Sonar.
 
The Gilreath book is probably the best around for learning about Midi composition from a technical viewpoint - I've got a copy myself.
 
The learning curve will be as steep whichever DAW you're using, but it will cause some head scratching. Just take it slowly and learn each bit as you go.
 
In order to clearly separate articulations from notes in the Piano Roll View, I use drum maps to display the artics and these sit directly above the note pane, making it easy to switch articulations in context. I think i set up 37 different drum maps for EWQLSO, so if you do adopt this strategy, be prepared for a lot of work in this respect.
 
 

i use ewql as well as vsl and vienna is by far a superior product in terms of software and samples. I'll chime in more in the morrow when I'm at a proper keyboard.

I recently added VSL Special Edition Vol 1 to my template. Prior to that I used a ton of Kontakt libraries. Since I've sort of 'grown up" with Kontakt (started with version 2) I am pretty comfortable/familiar with it, and it is capable of doing some really cool stuff.
 
But Vienna Instrument and Vienna Ensemble turned out to be very easy to learn. I had both of them up and running, and mostly doing what I wanted them to do in an evening. And I do love the sound of VSL, especially the winds. Their strings and brass add a very nice layer to my Cinesamples and 8Dio libraries, so all around this is working out quite well for me.

After about a month I decided that I wanted to tweak either Kontakt or Vienna Ensemble so that I had fewer things to remember for articulations. That too turned out to be pretty straight forward, but I felt like I was still missing something. I found the Street Smart Guide to Vienna Instruments Player at Alexander Publishing. I've been through it a couple of times now, and I get something new every time. Wish I had found this before I purchased the library<G>! There is a fair amount of information about Dimension Strings, which serves as a teaser I suppose, and I guess that's ok, but mostly it makes me want to spend more money. Oh well.
 
Anyway, if you can find your way around Kontakt (or Sonar for that matter) I think you'll be fine with VSL. And they really are wonderful sounding instruments!
 
Aside - I was working with Bidule as a tool to host my sample libraries outside Sonar, but after using Vienna Ensemble I am now working with the Vienna Ensemble Pro demo, and this looks like my next purchase!

Gentlemen, 
 
Thanks a lot for your help here.
 
Here is a follow-up question -- if I stick with X3e, what, with regard to VTT3 or anything else relevant to VSL -- would I be missing? I ask as I will not be upgrading to Platinum any time soon, if ever (long story, let's not get sidetracked by it; please just accept it as a hard constraint).  

I have both VS Ed 1 and EWQLSO Gold. Both work fine for me in Sonar 8.5. Can't comment on Sonar X. Getting the reverbs to match is the biggest challenge, as one is dry, the other wet. But it can be done. IMO, EWSO has a wealth of articulations, and if I were to go with just one, it would be that one. So many more sounds. I also use GPO and Cinematic Strings. I find that my needs for sounds can't be satisfied with just one library. Even Garritan at times works better in a specific spot.
 
I have always been put off by the high prices of Vienna. They are not that much better. Their "sales" don't come close to East West, which has 50% sales frequently, and ridiculously cheap package deals. The "Everyman's" music source.
 

EWSO was a strong contender here. I'd read a fair bit about it. Was given some pause by comments regarding Play and customer service (check out Amazon as one of many sources of grumbling), but for me the nail in the coffin is that they are recorded wet. I like more intimate sounds as opposed to big cinematic washes in large spaces, so the ability to apply my own verb to dry samples is key. Thanks for the advice though.
 
Everyone here is very helpful, thanks again. The vibe on this forum is about as good as it gets. I apologise for not contributing much, it's only because I don't know nuthin'  .... yet, anyway. 

A few more , perhaps somewhat overlapping questions (sorry, I'm just trying real hard to know what I might be getting into here), if I may...
 
--Is there anything deal-breaking about the way the free VI and Ensemble software work in X3e, due to, for example, X3e's VST3 implementation (as opposed to Platinum's?)
 
--I've heard that in X3e you need to launch a new instance of VI for every block of 16 channels?  If so... well, does that cause stability / routing / RAM use / other hassles? I often use 6-7 separate instances of Kontakt, and it all pretty much behaves, with no material RAM hit that I can see. 
 
--How easy / hard /  is basic multimbral out routing into X3e? I'm inclined to give each part its own audio channel in Sonar (at least while I start off, working with small-sih (4-12 voice) ensembles) and do panning / vol / eq etc work in Sonar, rather than in the VI or Ensemble  software, as in Sonar, this is something I can do now (unlike my most other things in this endeavor, it seems ;-)  ) .