Process > Length won't work - that just changes the length of MIDI notes, not their start times.

You'd just end up with a bunch of overlapping notes.

Thanks everyone.

Yes this is a midi only file

Process > Fit to time is the solution I used.

This works for me as I don't care to set a specific BMP otherwise I'd have to go through some calculations (OBTW For future reference - anyone know of a utility that does this?)

If the tempo was just abrupt time changes I'd just go down the list on the right side of the tempo view and add in a constant to each value.

Thanks also for the references to other forum tempo answers. My original search just didn't come  up with anything useful

I'd still like to see tempo as an envelope/nodes or tempo offset

The Scale Tempo CAL file does not work (at least in Sonar 8.5pe).

Fred

CJaysMusic


I would just go into your tempo map and increase each section by the same amount. I think its the only way to do it
Cj

Good thought, but it won't preserve the *relationships* of the tempo changes.  When there are multiple tempo variations - especially accelerando or ritard ramps, etc. - everything needs to change by a *percentage* for it to feel like the relationships are preserved.
 
 

Fret Wizz


A Tempo offset would be good to have eh?

Would be useful, but as noted above, it would only truly preserve tempo relationships if it offered a percentage mode instead of just a hard offset.
 
I agree that Fit To Time is the solution here.

There is no reliable calculator for "Fit-to-time to BPM" matching. Probably something is wrong in the very core of Sonar's tempo code (see link above).
Scale tempo CAL does not work in Sonar, I think it worked only in MIDI-only version 3 of Cakewalk.

The original request ("need to change overall tempo while preserving variation") would be very useful.

I would love to Cakewalk enhance how it treats tempo. The tempo related functions in Audiosnap are great, especially for creating complex tempo maps from live performances. But once you have a tempo maps its hard to effectively edit it.

Maybe part of the problem is that tempo isn't a series of discrete changes. For example, if I set the tempo at the start of every measure sometimes that tempo seems"shakey" like the drummer is speeding up and slowing down but not in a smooth manner that way real drummers do. Obviously if the drummer was drumming at 120 bpm at the start of measure 1 and then was drumming at 121 bpm at the start of measure 2 they probably didn't jump from 120 to 121 at the start of measure 2 but smoothly increased in someway between. Right now in sonar you can draw in some smooth tempo change between the measure starts but its most likely puts the rest of the tempo map out of sync.

Maybe what is needed is tempo to be presented as smooth curve between measures that a user can edit sort of like curve editing tools in graphics program like photoshop.

Does anyone know of other music apps that represent tempo as curves and allow editing by dragging curve control points?

As posted above, I'd like to see a tempo envelope.   Along with a tempo offset mode, just like we have for volume envelopes.  
 

I'm not at my computer with SONAR, but would Tempo Ratio work?

gkurtenbach

Maybe part of the problem is that tempo isn't a series of discrete changes. For example, if I set the tempo at the start of every measure sometimes that tempo seems"shakey" like the drummer is speeding up and slowing down but not in a smooth manner that way real drummers do.
 

But doesn't Sonar already have this capability?  From the doc:
 

When you use the Draw tool, the speed with which you

drag the mouse determines the density of tempo events. To insert a larger

number of relatively small tempo changes, move the mouse slowly. To

insert a smaller number of relatively large tempo changes, drag the mouse

quickly.
 
And this:
 

To Steadily Increase or Decrease the Tempo in the

Tempo View

1. Enable Groove Clip Looping on any audio clips that you want to follow

the tempo changes. Do this by selecting one or more clips, rightclicking

a selected clip, and choosing Groove-Clip Looping from the

popup menu. Each clip that has Groove Clip Looping enabled has

beveled edges instead of sharp corners. The same command disables

Groove Clip Looping on any selected clip that has Groove Clip Looping

enabled.
 
What I'm confused about is the "enable groove clip loopping" business.  What does this has to do with it?  Is there not a single tempo?  Or is it just implying (or not bothering to state) that MIDI will follow tempo period.  If all you've got is MIDI, you don't need to worry about the groove clipping settings.  That's how I hope things are.  Does anyone know if that's the correct interpretation?
 
Also, in reading through this section again in the doc, I can't see any way to tell Sonar to limit tempo changes to, say, quarter note positions.  Is there no "snap to grid" equivalent for tempo change events?  Presumably, if one does a fit-to-improve, the initial tempo map will align to whatever quantum the click track was made with.  But in editing after that, is there no way to stick with that arrangement (i.e., keep events aligned with note boundaries)?

dmbaer


If all you've got is MIDI, you don't need to worry about the groove clipping settings.  That's how I hope things are.  Does anyone know if that's the correct interpretation?

Answering my own question ... I just found this in the doc a few pages earlier:
 

When you change the tempo of a project that contains audio, SONAR

allows you to stretch or shrink audio clips when you have converted them to

Groove clips and have enabled the Follow Project Pitch option in the Loop

Construction view. Otherwise, the MIDI tracks will speed up or slow down

while the audio tracks will play at the same speed.
 
 
But I'm still curious about some sort of control on limiting at what boundaries tempo change events are placed.  Anyone have any wisdom to pass on?

 

 

dmbaer

gkurtenbach

Maybe part of the problem is that tempo isn't a series of discrete changes. For example, if I set the tempo at the start of every measure sometimes that tempo seems"shakey" like the drummer is speeding up and slowing down but not in a smooth manner that way real drummers do.
 

But doesn't Sonar already have this capability?  From the doc:
 

When you use the Draw tool, the speed with which you

drag the mouse determines the density of tempo events. To insert a larger

number of relatively small tempo changes, move the mouse slowly. To

insert a smaller number of relatively large tempo changes, drag the mouse

quickly.