• SONAR
  • Instruction on install of CbB? As suspected- they turned it in to Freeware. (p.4)
2018/04/15 21:50:52
Brian Walton
vladasyn
Not that I want to pay for it but this makes it unprofessional if anybody in the world can get it for free. So- yes, I like to pay and have exclusive features for paid clients. I cant take freeware seriously. Can you?  


This software does not create productions without human input.  How professional the final product is remains completely dependent on the person using the software.
 
If I'm handed the same raw audio files that you are given, I am 100% positive the final product would sound different based on the way I manipulate the audio.  Presumably the reason someone hires you is your skills in this area.
 
 
 - If someone gifts you a $4,000 guitar, is that instrument no-longer professional grade?  I bet it would sound like garbage in the hands of someone who has never played before, but "professional" in the hands of Phil Keaggy.  
 
Recently I gave my services away for free to master a podcast that a customer who hired a paid professional and was less than thrilled with the professional's product.  The version he received free from me is what he used instead of the version he paid for, because of my skill, not because of the tools I used.  
 
As a professional, you should want tools that get the same job done for the least amount of money, that way you can make more money.  
2018/04/15 23:42:08
abacab
Best recommendation for OP.  Buy Cubase! 
2018/04/16 05:09:04
vladasyn
Thank you for your replies, will finish reading in the morning. I thought, HeatherHaze, calling someone else's post dumb is against of forum rules. Price tag does makes product professional. In this world you get what you pay for. Been shopping for toilet seats the other night. 2 toilet seats, both black, one is $30 the other is $60- guess what- I expect the one at $60 to be harder and dont slide. Read the reviews- the reviews are better for $60 seat. Are you saying that Camry is not better car than Corolla? Most of things in this life have price range and expectation of luxury v/ entry level. Higher price usually means better materials, more work to produce, higher paying specialists, etc. But this is not even issue I have with the program. It's the kids. There is entry level software that should be free, and then there is full featured software that should have price tag. Having basic software for free and then offer paid features is different from having everything for free. I do not expect serious growth and development of the free software. The fact that thousands of immature will use this software will change the focus of development and make it surface deep. Why would they create professional features if immature will never use it AND they will not make any money selling it. Social networking platform hardly requires pro level features such as comping and MIDI automatization.   
2018/04/16 05:09:48
vladasyn
abacab
Best recommendation for OP.  Buy Cubase! 


Actually I did buy Cubase, soon as Cake went bally up. 
2018/04/16 05:27:21
vladasyn
 - If someone gifts you a $4,000 guitar, is that instrument no-longer professional grade?  I bet it would sound like garbage in the hands of someone who has never played before, but "professional" in the hands of Phil Keaggy.   
 
Is someone gifts you a $4000 guitar, just one guitar just to you, you will be lucky owner of $4000 guitar. If Guitar company takes their entire line of top shelf guitars, makes more of them and gives away for free couple of millions of guitars, the price will go down and these guitars will not be sold for $4000. The price will drop significantly. Would you expect the guitar company (Let's say Gibson) to use the same quality materials, the same expansive wood, maintain their factories and pay their workers top salaries if all they were doing is giving away guitars for free? Eventually they would have to use cheaper wood, less expansive hardware, cheaper strings and pick ups to be able to mass produce the guitars. It is easier to give away serial numbers and downloads because it does not cost anything when you purchased 30 years of development that someone else paid for. We, users, helped to develop this product by paying annual fees for it, by the way. And then some guy who paid nothing, will get the same software for free without paying and use money that he/she saved for unfair advantage. When it comes to future development of software and when you have to pay team of developers to move product forward, this is where it starts getting expansive. When you have millions of free users, how can you provide tech support and assure high level of customer experience if nobody pays for anything but everybody wants to be able to get support? The more users, the more issues, the more time it needs to support everybody- without paid manpower, the issues will not get resolved.  
2018/04/16 05:28:35
noynekker
vladasyn
Thank you for your replies, will finish reading in the morning. I thought, HeatherHaze, calling someone else's post dumb is against of forum rules. Price tag does makes product professional. In this world you get what you pay for. Been shopping for toilet seats the other night. 2 toilet seats, both black, one is $30 the other is $60- guess what- I expect the one at $60 to be harder and dont slide. Read the reviews- the reviews are better for $60 seat. Are you saying that Camry is not better car than Corolla? Most of things in this life have price range and expectation of luxury v/ entry level. Higher price usually means better materials, more work to produce, higher paying specialists, etc. But this is not even issue I have with the program. It's the kids. There is entry level software that should be free, and then there is full featured software that should have price tag. Having basic software for free and then offer paid features is different from having everything for free. I do not expect serious growth and development of the free software. The fact that thousands of immature will use this software will change the focus of development and make it surface deep. Why would they create professional features if immature will never use it AND they will not make any money selling it. Social networking platform hardly requires pro level features such as comping and MIDI automatization.   


Very nice vladasyn . . . your points here are well taken, one of the best forum rants I've seen in awhile (and there are many happening these last days) I find myself agreeing with most of what you say, but we can't change the Bandlab business model despite who this product is targeted for. DAW software is just not the commodity it used to be, there are too many players and not enough buyers. I too have always found "you get what you pay for" when buying consumer products, but not so sure it translates to the DAW world.
 
I think the "free" thing is just to get your attention . . . once they have your attention, it's easier to sell you something further down the road.
2018/04/16 05:37:26
noynekker
vladasyn
abacab
Best recommendation for OP.  Buy Cubase! 


Actually I did buy Cubase, soon as Cake went bally up. 


Yes, I also bought Cubase when news of the Sonar demise seemed permanent last November . . . and there are a lot of things I really like about Cubase. Right now I'm so glad to have two favourite DAWs, and I've found creative ways to move projects back and forth between the two, to utilize the strengths of both Sonar and Cubase.
2018/04/16 07:12:59
HeatherHaze
vladasyn
Thank you for your replies, will finish reading in the morning. I thought, HeatherHaze, calling someone else's post dumb is against of forum rules. Price tag does makes product professional. In this world you get what you pay for. Been shopping for toilet seats the other night. 2 toilet seats, both black, one is $30 the other is $60- guess what- I expect the one at $60 to be harder and dont slide. Read the reviews- the reviews are better for $60 seat. Are you saying that Camry is not better car than Corolla? Most of things in this life have price range and expectation of luxury v/ entry level. Higher price usually means better materials, more work to produce, higher paying specialists, etc. But this is not even issue I have with the program. It's the kids. There is entry level software that should be free, and then there is full featured software that should have price tag. Having basic software for free and then offer paid features is different from having everything for free. I do not expect serious growth and development of the free software. The fact that thousands of immature will use this software will change the focus of development and make it surface deep. Why would they create professional features if immature will never use it AND they will not make any money selling it. Social networking platform hardly requires pro level features such as comping and MIDI automatization.

 
We're not talking about toilet seats, cars, guitars, toenail clippers or any other physical product.  We're talking about a fully developed piece of professional software.  It has no legitimate resale value, so its cost has absolute no impact on its value.  Whether it's offered for free, $500, or $5,000,000, it is the same exact piece of software it was before.  It's value is determined solely by its effectiveness in rendering a professional result.  If it's used by professionals, it's professional. 

A $5 wrench in the hands of a toddler is a toy.  In the hands of a trained mechanic, it's an invaluable tool.  It's value is determined by the hand that holds it.

It's also ludicrous to imply that "free" software receives no growth and development.  It's simply not the case.  Do you use any Google apps?  Have you ever paid for one?  Almost everything Google offers is free.  Microsoft gave away millions of Windows 10 upgrades.  Do you think the product suffered as a result?  I don't.  iOS and Android are both free, along with hundreds of quality apps for your mobile devices.  Many companies offer free software that is fully developed and, dare I say, "professional."  

What Bandlab is doing may seem unconventional, but that doesn't mean it's not right.  And it doesn't mean its forever.  Will Cakewalk remain free?  We don't know.  But I do know that offering one of the absolute best DAWs in the industry for free, even for a limited time, is bound to shake things up.  I don't see that as a bad thing.   I can understand the panicked reactions of some consumers who feel somehow betrayed.  They feel their investment has been devalued.  But it's simply not true.  The value of the software has not changed in the slightest.  It's still the same professional tool it was a year ago.  The only difference is now it has risen from the dead and is again under development by a capable company that seems to care about its future.  Everything we've invested in Cakewalk over the years has led to this moment, including our passion for the product.  Whether we're professionals, hobbyists, producers, engineers or "immatures" (whatever that's supposed to mean), Cakewalk by Bandlab remains one of the best DAWs ever made, and only stands to get better.  

By the way, you may object to me calling the post "dumb" but I stand by that opinion.  That is not against forum rules.  Please note I am referring to the content of the post, not the poster.  I take issue with the former but make no judgment on the latter.  There is a difference.
2018/04/16 08:05:05
Songroom
The fact is that BandLab are not giving away the full product, new users get the core program which is akin to the original 'Artist' version. When I opted for the former flagship release my decision was based on the wealth of additional extras it included and I can still use the majority of these with CbB. I have pretty much what I paid for with the added bonus of continued development.  
 
Base versions of other software titles (including MS Visual Studio and Unity) are also available for free. This doesn't seem to have a detrimental affect on their popularity.
 
2018/04/16 08:46:52
Euthymia
vladasyn
I cant take freeware seriously. Can you?  



Absolutely.
 
Without Linux and Apache running most of the sites on the www, and LibreOffice, Audacity, MusicBee, Voxengo SPAN, Meldaproduction Free Bundle, ffmpeg, libflac, Firefox, Chrome, Internet Explorer, iZotope Imager, iZotope Vinyl, Sonalksis FreeG, VLC, MediaHuman Audio Converter, MP3Tag, and now Cakewalk (among many, many others) on my desktop computer, I could not do what I do without the existence of and my personal use of freeware. It's in my critical path daily.
 
What I can't take seriously is the inability take freeware seriously. You can't be serious.
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