• SONAR
  • REQUEST OPINIONS RE SWITCHING FROM WINDOWS TO MAC (p.3)
2015/04/22 02:38:03
WDI
I wouldn't buy a Mac to run Sonar via bootcamp. I would just use a Windows machine and enjoy some of the things Windows does good like graphics intensive games.
 
But my experience so far, about a year and a half, with a Macbook Pro has been great and I would miss a lot about OS X and Apple if I had to go back to Windows only.
 
For me OS X seems much more complete and polished compared to Windows and it has worked out great (not perfect but really good).
 
With Windows it seemed like I always had to walk on egg shells with audio, and to a certain extent video, and well pretty much all hardware. ASIO vs WDM vs whatever the default windows audio driver is being used, and internal sound card conflicting with external audio interface, and Windows programs conflicting with each other when using them at the same time as using your audio interface and audio program etc. The default monitor changing because you plunged in the video monitors differently this time and nothing displaying because the monitor isn't compatible with the resolution/frequency and Windows can't figure it out etc.
 
On the Mac I have zero fears running what ever I want all at the same time with what ever configuration hardware audio/video device I'm currently using. In fact, I have no idea what driver mode it uses and could care less. Hot swapping monitors day in day out with out a glitch. Logic, Audition or whatever works just as good weather I'm using RME Fireface 800, Edirol FA-66, Belkin Thunderbolt dock or the laptops internal sound. Latency? Seems fine with all the above. What did I do to configure the machine. Nothing.
 
And all the little things seem a little more complete and polished in OS X. There's not much I need in 3rd party apps. Silly little things, like taking screen shots, recording the screen, FontBook to see what fonts are installed, screen sharing (getting Windows Messenger remote assistance was a crap shoot at best), backup built in etc. Plus it integrates with iOS well. And security software, what's that? Been a year and a half and I haven't thought about security software once, or had to deal with it scanning all the time, finding fake crap etc. (Though, in Windows defense, MSE was pretty unobtrusive. Also updates, it's a one stop shop that pretty much runs itself. No more having to go to NVidea site or Mobo site etc searching for an update to hopefully fix some issue, trying to find the correct update etc. A BIOs, What's a Bio's? And who cares?
 
I always hear people say how much more Macs cost being built with standard cheap hardware. I'm not so sure. A lot of the cost was the retina display and pci-express SSD drive. The display has been tremendous for video editing, zero calibration. The SSD hums along over 700 MB/s. Thunderbolt 2 has worked out great with all hardware including both my firewire audio interfaces.
 
I have no problem with Windows really and I think Windows 10 is going to be nice
 
But marvinglenn2 asked so I thought I'd share my first experience with a Mac.
 
I'm probably just as tired of hearing about Apple and the "i" this and "i" that as anyone. But my experience has been pretty smooth. Logic, Final Cut and Motion have worked out good for me. Fingers crossed. Apple does seem to be moving really fast with stuff and I could see it leading to problems. Hopefully not.
 
And as far as a learning curve goes, it did take a little getting used to the differences. But they are minor and it became second nature pretty quick.
 
Oh, and did I mention that Logic works 100% with my control surface CM Labs MotorMix. I pointed out to Cakewalk the problems with the control surface and Sonar after I upgraded to Sonar 7 back in the day. They confirmed the problems. Never fixed.
2015/04/22 03:07:06
Sir Les
Yep WDI...I hear yah...loud and clear!..but it cost a fortune to get a nice audio video MAC to render big projects...I paid more for a mac last year...then all the PCs I have built over my life time...but man is it a beast...and I know once I get the right things working on it, it will do all in all , when I learn how it works and the ins and outs of the hole, so I know it like I found myself knowing the  pc and MS win....as Apple do R&D differently...they test some devices and recommend you buy Apple approved...or once did...So a step up to that may help get things working more smoothly....what seems to be hindering things is getting the right drivers for the audio working....in matched pairing with the OS of set updates...and then disconnect when, and then, from the internet completely, so nothing changes anything.....and back it up or make some sort of clone of the drive...
 
Both PC and MAC should not have auto updates at all...should be completely manual!
 
As this is causing things to get corrupted here, and causing new issues where none were before....just via updating sometimes...
 
Still hair comes out with both....So does it matter which one?.
Perhaps, if the OS changes via critical updates or new frame works or just new OS version, then so to, does the other stuff...if effected by change to gain?...or is it being underhandedly served the opposite to make gain in wealth via selling the bleeding cow?...Then nothing is standardized in whole or in part, as change incurs to right error or err, or to make more perfect in working with...variables of unknowns, equals that, there in lies ((LIES)) and ((IMPLIES)) non standards are not with it, to need change to occur, to cause error to continue.....And thus Bugs are born!...into the skin, and under the nerve endings and hair folic , which then causes the death of that, which then falls off...and does not grow back.....with out aid....and another cost if so seeking that solution for...
 
Now we cannot have all three can we?....why not?...you get what you pay for....and what prey tell me is it we pay for now?....or next with win 10 or OSX Peace fire...or what ever tree you want to buy....in those two camps....
 
I think, Cakewalk should make their own OS, and software....it would be great if they did!.
2015/04/22 03:14:53
WDI
Here is another one, thought I'd mention because I'm sure I've already made some enemies. Hope not though.
 
Not sure if this is still an issue on PC but I used to see it quite often.
 
Why are there so many problems with Wifi interfering with audio on a PC, or causing cpu spikes. I used to see all the time people saying turn of the Wifi to help fix drop outs.
 
Wifi has never been needed to be turned of on the Mac. Connected to the internet 24/7. I do toggle "do not disturb" on so I don't get interrupted with notifications. But they don't cause any issues. Just don't need to see them when I'm in the middle of working on something.
2015/04/22 03:27:55
WDI
I hear ya Les about the updates. I've had pretty good luck the last year and a half. Sure Apple has broke a few things with updates along the way, but so far they have been very minor. Nothing that stops me from getting stuff done. That was why I mentioned about them moving fast. Hopefully they keep there stuff together and don't fall apart because we are at their mercy.
 
One other hardware issue example I thought of on PC, and I've seen Craig mention it. The graphics card audio driver thing interfering with the performance of the PC. That kind of thing I do not miss and have not experienced yet on Mac. I'm sure Craig has had a lot more experience on Mac than me though and could tell me many stories of issues he has had on the Mac, and probably will. :)
 
 
2015/04/22 04:15:36
Sir Les
yah could be the thunderbolt 2 is working well, on my PC and helping me get internet here, which I could not do with firewire and windows 7....and pc anything or audio connected without issues in the daws of choice with firewire or usb...but then HDMI also having issues with audio, recently found as a variable, now fixed into sights around the world I hope to disable!...makes the idea of that , could of been the real hidden mystery to my problems with audio pops and clicks into win 7 on firewire to spur me to try...Thunderbolt 2... has cured many problems here ...on pc...As I am testing a new fresh supposedly rebuilt installing of WIN 8.1,((yet has bookmarks carried over in IE 11))((and desktop ini hidden icons on desktop)) ((why?))..no answer yet from MS on ICLOUD Keeping settings and info of setups and putting them back in yet, as a possible culpret...so I do not know what is going on here.....at this time..with bookmarks being transferred into a clean fresh install...perhaps it found a backup folder on another drive or some swap file on another drive to bring them into IE?...
 
 I am going to attempt a full update of OS first, and install all MB Drivers...including Wi FI...and even this NFC thingy.. which I believe connects to it, made by ASUS, that need wi fi...and then put on some Platinum mayham...and see what cooks the books!....and post...if it works or not...just to see...a possible solution unfold for many on both?....
 
Now that would be something..MS might like...or not like...it was MS that developed Thunderbolt..i believe...not sure why they keep doing the usb thing...But it has third parties happy I guess....could be better?...Yah thunderbolt 3....but not yet?...why?........moe money...moe hair loss...I imagine is the game play....but will the hair fall out at the same speed?.....now that has to be tested also.
2015/04/22 04:39:06
Sir Les
Kind of reminds me of scsi back in the hay day of Hard drives and track counts and speed , wide extra wide...blah blah?...well a wide buss will let more info into the lanes....or more data to flow, or more people getting off the buss, to get hair transplants at the number 10 station, when it arrives...if it ever does...usb 3 will be the next troubleshoot for PC, and apple will move on...in still favorable progressions?...a few years on to include that usb 3, with TB X....and wifi remote control, stuck to the headsets in surround viewing moduals, so you only have to wink...to start stop recording.....Something Atari should have developed....they had the head set already made for virtual gaming...some one is now stealing and calling it new!
2015/04/22 06:51:08
tlw
Mac pros.
Hardware all sourced by Apple and the OS written around it. No more chasing after multiple drivers, sorting out the BIOS and cpu sleep states, disabling core parking etc.
Core audio/MIDI "just works".
Logic Pro is pretty good and inexpensive.
Good displays.

Windows PC pros.
A PC that costs half the price of a top-end iMac will be at least as powerful.
More software available.

Mac cons.
Cost.
Not quite as crashproof as Apple worshippers often claim. The sound of a Mac falling over or glitching into a 20Kwatt PA is just as ugly as a PC doing the same.
Can not run Sonar natively.
Only 4 USB ports at most.
Extra drives have to be external and you can't upgrade almost any components.
Thunderbolt is not yet very well supported and what hardware exists is expensive and many external USB/Thunderbolt drives are limited by their internal electronics to USB speeds (and while USB3 is fast it isn't as fast in the real world as a directly connected SATA drive.

PC cons.
The endless hunt for the right drivers.
The habit of PC component manufacturers to let the end customer do all the testing and quality control on their products.
Picking the right hardware components in the first place.
Cheap PCs have components chosen for cheapness rather than reliability or compatability with resource intensive applications like DAWs.
It can be very difficult to work out what isn't working correctly in a PC. Build your own and you are effectively warranty-less.
2015/04/22 14:28:29
Jim Roseberry
Keni
So if you do this, it gives you more horsepower than you can easily find in windiws based hardware...



FWIW, You can easily get that level of performance with a custom Windows PC. 
Noel's new DAW is running an i7-5960x (16 processing threads).  
 
2015/04/22 14:32:33
Jim Roseberry
If you buy a new "Cylinder" Mac Pro, you're going to pay $3000-$4000... and have a machine that's slower than a PC that's about half that cost.
 
Also, you'd have absolutely zero expansion card slots.
All peripherals have to be either USB or Thunderbolt.
 
2015/04/22 14:35:49
daveny5
tlw
PC cons.
The endless hunt for the right drivers.

Really? Maybe 10 years ago. Not now.
 
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